I am from 2036 - John Titor

[kingart]

Posted by Blonnie Dowden on 02-12-2001 12:31 PM

Kane Greene wrote:

"Another thing about people saying how John doesn't know any World Events that are about to happen in the next few months. But you have to remember, that the last time John was in our time, assuming he hasn't traveled back was when he was 3 years old! How many of you can honestly say you remember at-the-time important issues that happened when you were 3! I know I can't!"

3 years old.. yes. i was 3 years old when reagan was president & i probably had no idea he even existed at the time..yet, i know now that he existed. john is not a three year old now -- he's 38 he says & unless the schools of the future teach no history then why wouldn't he know these things? & as they are big events in history i can understand (possibly) why he wouldn't want to post them… but it has nothing to do with his age… tell me there weren't things that happened or people that existed when you were three.. that you didn't know of then but know of now? the beatles for instance were alive & famous before i was ever born, yet i know they existed in the 60's/70's. i was born in 81 & challenger blew up soon thereafter (in 83 i think it was???) i never saw it on television happening.. but i know it happened. -- what about marilyn monroe? i wasn't even born yet when she was alive -- but i know she existed? & telling us something such as her existance would not greatly affect the outcome of our entire world.. so why not tell us? i can possibly understand how telling us that there will be a horrible bombing in canada..would affect the future .. someone on here may be from canada & keep their family away from the site of the bombing .. thus, changing future.. but telling us something of little importance will NOT change the future! it will only prove he is who/what he says he is.

-blonnie-

Posted by Kane Greene on 02-12-2001 12:45 PM

Red face

By Blonnie: "3 years old.. yes. i was 3 years old when reagan was president & i probably had no idea he even existed at the time..yet, i know now that he existed. john is not a three year old now -- he's 38 he says & unless the schools of the future teach no history then why wouldn't he know these things? & as they are big events in history i can understand (possibly) why he wouldn't want to post them… but it has nothing to do with his age… tell me there weren't things that happened or people that existed when you were three.. that you didn't know of then but know of now? the beatles for instance were alive & famous before i was ever born, yet i know they existed in the 60's/70's. i was born in 81 & challenger blew up soon thereafter (in 83 i think it was???) i never saw it on television happening.. but i know it happened. -- what about marilyn monroe? i wasn't even born yet when she was alive -- but i know she existed? & telling us something such as her existance would not greatly affect the outcome of our entire world.. so why not tell us? i can possibly understand how telling us that there will be a horrible bombing in canada..would affect the future .. someone on here may be from canada & keep their family away from the site of the bombing .. thus, changing future.. but telling us something of little importance will NOT change the future! it will only prove he is who/what he says he is. "

I was alive when Desert Storm took place, do I know the month it happened? No.. I wouldn't expect John to either. Plus, History books from that time would probably contain things about the war from 2005, possibly things leading up to the war. Not inventions like 'Ginger' and pop artists!

History books might mention some things, but they just give a year most of the time if it is not of grave importance, they more than less are going to just give the year and say what it did.

Blah! Why can't vBulletin have the quote feature like the better, UBB? Blah!

Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-12-2001 01:15 PM

I was born in 1957. I DO remember the 1962 crisis, at least in terms of the adults being scared. I would have been 5 years old. I distinctly remember John Glenn going up and splashing down, and I remember hearing about Alan Sheppard (first man in space for you younguns hehe).

I indeed remember watching John Glenn though. I remember Walter Cronkites voice on television. I can tell you what my house looked like back then, the size of the TV and that it was black and white. I remember playing with magnets back then, and being absolutely fascinated with the magic of magnetic fields even then (which eventually drove me into the sciences, chemistry, physics and finally electronics engineering).

I remember a TV show called "Time Tunnel" in the late 60's. Anyone else?

Anyway, the basic point is, I do have very vivid memories of things from when I was a child, of no more than 3-4. I have very, very clear memories of things when I was 3 and even my mom when she was alive was amazed at the things I could recall from such a young age. Well… I don't remember much about politics though. I know that Eisenhower was the Prez when I was born, but… I don't remember ANYTHING about him, but I DO remember all KINDS of things about Kennedy.

So… what I am getting at, John would not necessarily (nor would anyone else) remember things of politics in their baby years. Some of us do, many of us do not.

I can tell you something very important to me though… if *I* stepped into a time machine to go back to… say 1961 or 1962 I ABSOULTELY would have a complete knowledge of the era that I was returning to, in my mind. I'd have studied it very carefully, and I would ensure I had clothing of that era (up to and including the geeky classes I used to wear as a kid) to "fit in". 1962 was a year of the almost end of the human race as we know it now, and I CERTAINLY would not want to step into a time where I could have been noticed as being out of place and out of time. Curiousity about me might cause my arrest or anything else in those days.

As a 43 year old grandpa, I know a LOT more now, than I did then. I KNOW that if I had the chance to go see it with what I know now, I would take that chance. I also know that I probably would NOT pass on intelligence from the future as a matter of course. I would not communicate with anyone who might be able to discern my intent, or even anything about the future from me.

Even if I were 2.6% off track from my time line. Even if I were 45% off track, I would not give anyone the chance to gloam on to anything I said about the future.

Rick Donaldson Colorado Springs

[kingart]

Posted by Nikki Colwill on 02-12-2001 01:31 PM

Please tell us about the enviornment, the animal kingdom, are there any left…what kind? If there were nukes, how do any survive? What are the physical concequences on us?

Have you heard of ascension or "The Rapture"? If so please tell what you know.

Do you trust anyone in this time frame? If so, do you share more info with them?

Have you heard of the Mayan Calander? Do you believe it to be a true or factual event timeline?

I am told that fear keeps us further from the truth and God, that being said, you had stated earlier that fear is what would keep us alive, at least I think you said something like that, anyway I find that a contradiction.

I would like to speak/e-mail with you. Is that possible or something you would be willing to do? Would you consider that?

Thanks, Nikki PS--Is Art Bell remembered? Who are the most remembered people from this time? [Edited by Nikki Colwill on 02-12-2001 at 01:37 PM]

Posted by Kane Greene on 02-12-2001 03:49 PM

Lightbulb

John, I have a few more questions. These ones are more about the 'War', and the state of your world.

(1) Who is the Major Super Power?

(2) Are the two political parties still Republicans and Democrats?

(3) How many States are there?

(4) Which states get the worst?

(5) Were only cities along the Eastern Sea port hit in the Nuclear War, or all over the country?

(6) Do companys like Microsoft, Yahoo!, and other internet software companys still exist?

(7) Does money look alot different than it does now? If you have a picture, could you please upload it and post the link!

( So then when you time travel you can never actually go back to the EXACT same place you left from?

(9) Was alot of the United States' 18-24 age group slaughtered in the war because of Draft?

(10)Do you ever get visitors from later time periods to 2036?

(11) Are there any other companys, besides the one you work for that have TTs and send them out regularly?

(12) Does the government know there is TT going on?

(13) Why were YOU selected to be a TT? What gave you special qualifications?

(14) How many TTs are there on the team that you are on? How do new recruits get selected?

(15) What all countrys are on our side in the war? What all countrys are on the oposite side?

(16) Which country gets the worst in the war?

Those are just a few more I came up with , I will let you know if I think of more!

Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-12-2001 07:28 PM

John Titor is a fraud. Check out this forum he's been posting on for months. And see how he suddenly goes quiet because he is exposed.

http://www.xone.net/tti/board/ubbhtml/Forum1/HTML/000433.html

And also see the discrepancy's in his story. And how he attempts to lure people into believing in him. http://www.xone.net/tti/board/ubbhtml/Forum1/HTML/000367.html

We found you TT_0, and now the calvary will soon arrive to expose you here too.

-Javier C.

A.K.A. TimeTravelActivist

Posted by Kennith Viccars on 02-12-2001 07:50 PM

You people are seriously starting to scare me.

Some shmuck claims to be from the year 2036, posts a few intelligent posts on a online forum, and has a herd of sheep hanging off his every word.

Get some direction in you lives.

Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-12-2001 08:07 PM

??

Well it was fun while it lasted. Still haven't read the archive of posts of the mentioned board, though, sheep that I am, I'll have to take your word for it. (until I get time to read up). What were the points that stuck out, Javier?

(I do believe in ghosts, I do believe in ghosts, I do, I do …. and on)

Posted by Sally Stanton on 02-12-2001 08:16 PM

Talking

Watch me pull a rabbit out of Ong's Hat!!

Anway, 'scuze me. Gotta run. My kitty's looking for that Door into Sumer (sic).

Posted by John Titor on 02-12-2001 08:54 PM

Thank you Vega for the information. I will visit the site and I expect I will have some questions.

Yes, there are a great many people who think that Revelations has come to pass. However, the new fear is that Christ has returned, he's not telling us and he's very angry. I am not familiar with the Fatima Prophesies but I am aware of the term. I was not sent here to change anything. Since it would not affect my home anyway, it would be rather pointless. I am here because of my family and the interaction I had with them in 1975. I understand the question about the Antichrist but I must admit I hadn't given it much thought. My initial reaction is to consider how the Antichrist would affect my life if I could identify him/her. If your life became a sort of "Hell" anyway, would it matter if the Antichrist was real?

I became aware of this bulletin board through my various archiving work through the web. We do enjoy "talk programs" but they are distributed over the web. I don't have additional information about UFOs and I find the subject quite interesting myself. I have often wondered if they aren't time travelers with very sophisticated machines. Based on what I know about the nature of time I find this difficult to believe but nothing is impossible.

Yes, handmade items and the skills to make them are quite prevalent and people take a great deal of pride in their work. People with the skills to make clothing, work with leather and wood or cultivate a garden have become quite valuable. Please do not think your questions are unimportant. I enjoy the conversation.

Fiji? I've noticed that when most Americans think about Canada in this time, they think about pine trees, chooks and back-bacon. It may interest you to know that most Canadians in 2036 are some of the most efficient, ruthless and dangerous people I know. God help Quebec.

Within limits, I'm confident my anonymity is secure. The various email and web accounts I have do not have a big sign that says "Time Machine This Way --à". In order to be at risk I would have to be believed. In my experience, evil may be powerful, but they aren't very bright.

((you couldn't even answer the simple question of what will be the next 'movement' in music? just something so simple as that))

Unfortunately, your question is rather difficult for me. Any personal experience I might have with your worldline at a specific moment is limited to my viewpoint and age. I can't tell you what music is popular in the next few years because the "me" here is only three years old. In addition, how does someone decide what the most popular music trend is? It would seem rather subjective to me. Thinking about it now I sort of wonder what it would be like to be a teenager now and know the answer to that question. When I was thirteen I used to worry about which shotgun slug would take a door handle off and whether or not I had any dry socks. Current fallout estimates are accurate but a bit exaggerated.

Your example of what people would do based on something I might say is accurate. However, my concern would be the potential actions of a single person, not the masses. In 1963, if I suggested that someone should watch the book depository windows as the President went by, the actions of a single person might have a huge impact on history. You also asked if I've visited my "past" family. That's where I am now.

((1) Once a micro-singularity is produced and placed in statis in a magnetic field, what is the approximate strength of that magnetic field.

2) How is the magnetic field produced (I mean -- what power source holds the field in place)?

3) What would happen to the microsignularity if that source FAILED? For instance would the microsingularity begin to grow? Or would it cease to exist?))

These are excellent questions that I probably won't answer to your satisfaction but let me make a couple of points first. Although I am familiar with the general manufacture of the unit, I am not a physicist or a scientist. My background is in history and I had the correct profile to accomplish my given task in 1975. I doubt that most jet fighter pilots are aeronautical engineers and I'll bet most of you couldn't give me the formula for horsepower, yet you drive a car every day.

The second point I can illustrate with an interesting story. In the opening phases of WWI, one of the largest problems early fighter pilots had was how to shoot a machine gun through the propeller blades without chopping it to bits. The problem was very straightforward. When the engine was off, the blades took up only a small percentage of the total arch but with the engine on, there was seemingly no way to know when it was safe to shoot through them. This problem lasted for quite a while until a very smart person came up with a very simple solution. By using a small lobed cam on the propeller shaft that controlled a switch on the machine gun, it was possible to stop the gun from firing only when the cam turned off the switch at the point a bullet might hit the blade. It was so simple in fact, the other side only caught on to the idea after one of the planes crashed and they were able to take it apart.

My point is; seemingly very complicated problems often have very simple and ingenious solutions using technology that is already available. The distortion unit is not magic and no alien technology was required to make it work. If you could see it, the "smarts" that went into designing it will amaze you more than the technology. Heck, the really interesting technology is in the computer.

The magnetic field does not require the fantastic energies you might imagine. The field is "created" and captures the singularity inside a very large and powerful specially designed particle accelerator. If the magnetic system failed (which has numerous backups including a system that would remove it from this worldline), the singularity would evaporate. Although it is smaller than an electron, it would still be quite undesirable.

((why do you keep telling us about the ww3..etc.. how do you know that will even -happen- in our worldline? it may have already been nipped in the bud for all you know..because ours is a different -worldline- from yours!))

Yes, you are correct! However, I am not confident things are different enough for you to avoid the conflict. You may also consider the possibility that a world with no war is far less desirable in the long run. In response to your other point, your assumptions about causality are correct but my personal morality still comes into play. I won't deviate from my three rules because of the way I would feel about myself.

The singularities do not create Tipler cylinders they create the same physical environment without all the mass. The same math works for both. There are two singularities. Their mass and spin is altered in order to adjust the size of the ergosphere and cause the event horizons to interact and create the gravity sinusoid. I have a basic home schooling education (k-12) and a bachelor's degree in history.

I will get to the remaining questions soon.

John

[kingart]

Posted by Blonnie Dowden on 02-12-2001 09:35 PM

i am simply going to answer many questions at once.. read above for sources.. i do not site the source of the question. i also want to note that i'm a very -unskeptical- person..i kinda have the philosophy that anything is possible .. i infact, believe that time travel does most likely exist.. but mr titor you have skirted around too many questions to be believable. someone asked why they could not find a 'titor 'listed in florida.. & you failed to answer that question.. here are my responses.

(a summary of a question) "he was only 3 years old now..how would -he- know what the next big movement in music was?"

..i know that madonna was a HUGE THING in the 80's.. yet i was only born in 81!! i know that 'dallas' & 'dynasty' & 'falcon crest' were big time t.v. shows then..but i was very young. why wouldn't he know of such simple things as that? & even if he was just 3..he was 5 & 6 & up to 38 before he 'came here'..!!

another response: "I was alive when Desert Storm took place, do I know the month it happened? No.. I wouldn't expect John to either. Plus, History books from that time would probably contain things about the war from 2005, possibly things leading up to the war. Not inventions like 'Ginger' and pop artists!

History books might mention some things, but they just give a year most of the time if it is not of grave importance, they more than less are going to just give the year and say what it did. "

i never asked for an exact month -- i asked for a rough time period. you do not need a history book to know the things that i ask -- because i'm asking things that are common knowledge among -society-. in our 'dumbed down' society.. even the people w/the largest lack of knowledge about current events know popular things that are occuring. & if they happen to be three years old right now -- don't you think they'd say 'well, when i was 13, -guzzenberry- was a big t.v. show'. i need no history book to know that by the time i was 5-9 she-ra dolls were a big time thing.. & they were the next rave of toys. or that 'we didn't start the fire' or whatever it's title.. was a big hit song.. if you were a person at that time..you'd remember those sorts of silly little things.

mr titors response to my question (mine in parenthesis):

"((you couldn't even answer the simple question of what will be the next 'movement' in music? just something so simple as that))

""Unfortunately, your question is rather difficult for me. Any personal experience I might have with your worldline at a specific moment is limited to my viewpoint and age. I can't tell you what music is popular in the next few years because the "me" here is only three years old. In addition, how does someone decide what the most popular music trend is? It would seem rather subjective to me. Thinking about it now I sort of wonder what it would be like to be a teenager now and know the answer to that question. When I was thirteen I used to worry about which shotgun slug would take a door handle off and whether or not I had any dry socks. Current fallout estimates are accurate but a bit exaggerated."

you say popular music would be subjective..but i say: even though i am not a fan of rap music..i know it came to the forfront in the 80's.. run dmc.. the fresh prince.. ton loc. (ok, i kinda like those bands..but the more modern day ones i care little for..).. i know that madonna for instance was on countless billboards in the 80's & was known for her 'sex' driven image..michael jackson was the 'king of pop'.. -- milli vanilli -sucked- & that 'the new kids on the block' were a rave w/my generation.

you also say this: "Your example of what people would do based on something I might say is accurate. However, my concern would be the potential actions of a single person, not the masses. In 1963, if I suggested that someone should watch the book depository windows as the President went by, the actions of a single person might have a huge impact on history. You also asked if I've visited my "past" family. That's where I am now."

when i ask you a question of why you can't tell us 'there will be an earthquake in isreal in 2010..' or something of the such..this is not a question that someone could CHANGE. it is a natural disaster & i purposely chose that sort of a disaster so the question could not be passed by as you did in your response. however, you choose to use a different type of example rather than answer my question -directly-..

i am a basic naive -schmuck-..in that i am gullible & like to believe everything. i've heard of the planet 'nibiru' & find the theories extremely interesting & i even think it could be/might be true.. i do believe in time travel & i even think that we are perhaps being visited -now- by time travelers.. however, i don't know if this is -true-..just a possibility.

i just think you skirt around too many issues .. & by refusing to even mention something from the 'future' that could not be -changed- by people -today-..it just gives me further evidence that you are not who you say you are.

i apologize to be so blunt.. but you skirt around so many questions that i just find you hard to believe.

Posted by Mike Kolesnik on 02-12-2001 11:00 PM

Red face

This could be a good exercise in Logic and Critical Thinking. I will try to approach this from a math set theory point of view.

1. John says he is a TT. ( Ok, here we have a basic statement)

2. John says he came here (1975 actually) for an IBM 5100 computer. ( Ok, he has a purpose)

3. John wants to remain anon but posts numerous posts to this board and at least 2 others where he expounds on, among other things, the functioning and design of the TT machine. (OK, here is the BIG problem. Why would a TT'er reveal himself & the TT machine? In John's stated mission, these actions have no purpose.)

4. John alludes to a civil war being started between the Democrats and Republicans. Later, this escalates into WW3 and he mentions that it is a "good" thing for our soceity. ( 3 billion people dead a "good" thing?)

5. John tells us to: buy a gun, find 5 friends, get a bicycle, yada, yada, yada. ( this conflicts with his above comments: here he seems to want to save some people, while above he wants to kill us all off)

6. In previous posts John mentions that he has no idea what GINGER is but in a later post he mentions media hype and alludes to IT not amounting to much.

7. John mentions the Big War(2015) was between the Cities of America (the enemy of John) and Russia, China, etc.(so not only do we have a civil war but now we have a war between the city folk and rural folk in the US, AND a world war)

8. John says the civil war which starts in 2004 or 2005 (depending on the post) leads to the world war which starts in 2015. ( So we have a TEN YEAR civil war???)

9. John mentions that the mechanical typewriter is a major machine again in the future, but in another post says the Internet still exists and is widely used. ( Who builds typewriters anymore and who last used the typewriter in a most infamous way? Hint: he lived in a one room cabin in Montana and hated technology and soceity)

Responses???

[kingart]

Posted by John Titor on 02-12-2001 11:51 PM

I almost made it to bed… I'm flattered you went back and double checked.

((3. John wants to remain anon but posts numerous posts to this board and at least 2 others where he expounds on, among other things, the functioning and design of the TT machine. OK, here is the BIG problem. Why would a TT'er reveal himself & the TT machine? In John's stated mission, these actions have no purpose.))

I still fail to see why this is a problem. If you can think of another way where I can interact with people I would very much like to hear your suggestions. Why isn't the mere act of speaking with other people an end in itself? Personally, I find the unit interesting and I like talking about it. There must be something in your life like that.

((4. John alludes to a civil war being started between the Democrats and Republicans. Later, this escalates into WW3 and he mentions that it is a "good" thing for our soceity. ( 3 billion people dead a "good" thing?))

I don't believe I ever said the war was between Democrats and Republicans. If I am incorrect, please point that out. It doesn't exactly escalate as much as it opens the door for other aggression. Yes, I think the war would be good for society and I would be happy to debate that with you.

((5. John tells us to: buy a gun, find 5 friends, get a bicycle, yada, yada, yada. ( this conflicts with his above comments: here he seems to want to save some people, while above he wants to kill us all off))

If you could point out how this violates the three guidelines I stated earlier I will give it considerable thought. Perhaps you are correct and that was a mistake. Again, I don't believe I said I want to kill you. Personally, I think murder is wrong. You seem to be pretty good at that yourself.

((6. In previous posts John mentions that he has no idea what GINGER is but in a later post he mentions media hype and alludes to IT not amounting to much.))

Again, I don't believe I said that either. My point in that conversation was about feeling manipulated by hype. Since they ARE asking you to buy something, I would be very interested in your lengthy and critical postings about ITS credibility. If you could post that link I would very much like to see it.

((7. John mentions the Big War(2015) was between the Cities of America (the enemy of John) and Russia, China, etc.(so not only do we have a civil war but now we have a war between the city folk and rural folk in the US, AND a world war))

Hmmm…are you familiar with the Russian partisan movement in WWII?

((8. John says the civil war which starts in 2004 or 2005 (depending on the post) leads to the world war which starts in 2015. ( So we have a TEN YEAR civil war???))

It's 2004. I apologize for a missed key (very observant -- we all need good critics). Perhaps our definition of war is different. I would define it as a conflict where organized groups engage in maneuver and armed conflict. The first U.S. civil war lasted 4 years and the English civil war lasted 6. How long is too long?

((9. John mentions that the mechanical typewriter is a major machine again in the future, but in another post says the Internet still exists and is widely used. ( Who builds typewriters anymore and who last used the typewriter in a most infamous way? Hint: he lived in a one room cabin in Montana and hated technology and soceity))

Actually, what I said was, "…you may be surprised at how many people use typewriters." I don't understand the conflict. What's wrong with typewriters? At least you don't have to plug them in.

Thanks for the patience…getting to the other questions.

Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-13-2001 07:54 AM

First off, the clown who called everyone "sheep" here is out of line. Go BACK and read my posts, CAREFULLY. No one here is a sheep. We are interested in what the guy had to say, because he made several points, some of them very sound, scientifically.

I really detest people like you who go around and make rash assuptions about "everyone on this list" or another list. You're the same kind of jerk that goes around and tells the media that "all militia members are a bad", or "guns are a bad thing". The same kind of person that wants people like "Social Services" to pidgeonhole everyone. Instead of insulting the intelligence of the people who are here trying to use deductive reasoning to ascertain the truth about someone's means, motive and methods, why don't you go back to your little world and leave the rest of us alone who are trying to find out the truth about someone!? Absolute, denial of any possibilities is your bag. Go deny Big Foot exists, or go deny that the military has an Area 51.

Mr. Titor, no, you didn't answer my questions at all regarding singularities (except that they would 'evaporate', or the device would 'remove itself from the time line').

In fact, regardless of your background you should have a basic understanding of physics. I'm absoultely CERTAIN that if you're a pilot of an aircraft you ARE an engineer to an extent in that you understand BASIC PHYSICS of how your aircraft flies.

If you're a race car driver, evidence points to the fact that even THEY have a very good understanding of their cars, engines and the physics thereof.

I know for instance that my Jeep is capable of about 198 horsepower. I know that it uses fuel injection. I'm not a mechanic, but I can certainly tell you a great deal about how an internal combustion engine works. I can tell you how a bicycle functions (because I used to ride them). I can tell you a good deal about physiology as well -- the human body, BECAUSE I HAVE TO KNOW!

By the way, I don't remember the "horsepower forumla" off HAND, but I can tell you 1 hp = 746 watts. I am an engineer -- and I can tell you this much more, if you're a real time traveler from 2036 and time travel is as easy (and as often) as you say it is, and you're in the military or some government service, then by 1) exposing yourself, you've very likely broken several regulations, 2) Put yourself at risk by doing so, 3) should know a hell of a lot more about the machines you're operating, 4) are inconsistent in several aspects of your posts.

In other words John -- you're an apparent fraud. That's too bad, too. These people here want to know the truth, they want to believe that there are time travelers, and that perhaps TT would even explain the UFO pheonomenon or other things that are unexplained in the world today. If you were a real person and you have gone so far as to tell us "I'm real, but I don't care if you believe me, in fact I don't want you to believe me"… then you've got a serious problem with reality -- not relativity.

By the way, I have some very extreme reasons to doubt that a microsignularity exists in the first place, and in the second place, if it DID exist, I doubt it would be the "size of an electron". In any case, a signularity (a black hole for those of you who haven't figured that out yet) is an extreme mass, and holding it in a magnetic field in a gravitational field as strong as Earth's would simply rip the singularity from the magnetic field causing the black hold to crash to the center of the mass of Earth. The Earth would then become part of the black hole as it grew in size, pulling in the matter of the Earth.

At least that's what physics says. If there are "fail safes" on such a device, the device's power would have to be backed up multiple times, and then STILL FUNCTION (to 'rotate the craft out of this time line') to save the existing time line from major problems.

Sorry folks, too many holes (not black holes) in this theory. [Edited by Rick Donaldson on 02-13-2001 at 08:01 AM]

Posted by Chris Greycheck on 02-13-2001 08:57 AM

Thumbs up

Rick (& John)

Rick, you've made some very good points and criticisms regarding John and his claims.

That's right, even a racecar driver has a basic understanding as to the physics involved in his car, so John, why can't you explain your "time machine" in greater detail?

And just for the record the formula for horsepower is something along the lines of reldline rpm X 35 / 6500… I know that's not the right formula, but it's something like that, I can check it in my "Top 10 Torque Monsters" of Motor Trend magazine.

Posted by Mel Reckling on 02-13-2001 09:14 AM

John, A couple of questions 1. Is the Chevy truck better than the Ford truck for time travel. I always thought the TT package meant trailer towing. Geez was I wrong! Is Chevy still making time travel machines in 2036?

2. How did you buy your truck? How could you title it if you are only 3 years old to the title bureau at this point? You won't be able to sell it in Minnesota unless it's in your name and clear. Is the Chevy newer and how did you pay for it? Did you scrounge around to find 40 year old currency in 2036? I know I wouldn't take any money from someone that had mint marks from 2036.

3. Does the truck have to be running when you are travelling through time. Did you come here in a Chevy? What if you run out of gas? Are there any factory options that make it easier, like cruise control?

That's all I can think of for now.

[kingart]

Posted by John Titor on 02-13-2001 10:51 AM

((1)Have you ever went on any other time traveling missions? If so, what were they?))

Yes, but they were all training missions. There is a great deal of psychological profiling and testing and one of the training missions involved choosing a time in your life (within two years) where you wish you would have done something different and then going back to convince yourself to do it. The idea is to become familiar with the possibility of meeting yourself which can be rather difficult. It is quite odd to look at "yourself" and have a conversation. Since any "you" on another worldline would not be a mirror image, you get a slightly distorted feeling while seeing yourself, let alone the concept of speaking to yourself

(2)I believe you said you had pictures of your time machine, could you post a link to uploaded images?

I would be happy to do that and I tried a link earlier. I suspect that attaching links to other boards without the Sysop's permission is in bad taste.

(3)If you have any pictures of the IBM computer you were susposed to get, could you post a link to them also?

I'm pretty sure there must be something on the web now about the IBM 5100.

(4)I looked up the name 'Titor' in the state of Flordia on 555-1212.com and couldn't find ANY Titors, is your family not listed in the phone book?

I guess it depends when you look.

(5)Can I contact you through any other means of online communications? Like AOL Instant Messagner? ICQ? MSN? Something so I can have a conversation with you! But if you don't have those, could you possibly consider downloading one of them, then emailing me your user name abcs_123s@hotmail.com,nks!

I've tried talking online before and found it quite enjoyable but I find the questions and comments come so rapidly its hard to keep up.

(6)What is the specific Date that the Nuclear war starts? If you can't remember the exact date, could you put the month at least? An estimate!

I remember the exact date. When it comes, it will not be a surprise.

(7)What is the speed of the average computer in the future? I am assuming it is in ghZ, if it is higher, could you post the name of that hZ measurement and its relation to the ghZ?

Ghz is not a useful measurement. Computers are no longer measured by their speed as mush as the number of variables (not calculations) they can handle per second.

(8)Can you do your own Time Traveling ventures whenever you want? If so, how much does it cost? Or can you make 'pit stops' along the way back to 2036?

No, the unit doesn't belong to me. I can't make stops on the way home as it will throw the gravity measurements off and It would force me to backtrack along the backtrack. Also, I can't just leave and arrive at any place and time I want to. There are physical and technical limits to when and where I can go.

(9)Have you ever went past your future, like to 2050 or somewhere around there? If so, what is the world like then?

No, I haven't been to the future of my 2036. My profile qualified me for a trip to the past.

((what about marilyn monroe? i wasn't even born yet when she was alive -- but i know she existed? & telling us something such as her existance would not greatly affect the outcome of our entire world.. so why not tell us?))

I understand your position and appreciate your supportive outlook. However, I have given some very detailed information that could be checked out. Please consider that our frame of reference is quite different and finding subjects to discuss and exchange information about could be a challenge. I'm just not up on music, Hollywood and sports in the year 2001. You could ask me all you want about 1975 but I suspect that's not very impressive.

((…but it has nothing to do with his age..))

Actually it does, I have never personally experienced this time as an adult and "Brittany Spears" was not a big topic of conversation when your hiking through the swamp. Everything I know about your time is from books, magazines and old videotapes that weren't destroyed in the war. If it makes you feel any better, I do struggle with not talking about football.

The animal Kingdom is alive and well. I'm sure it suffered but there fewer people infringing on animal's habitats now. Nuclear war is a very undesirable thing but it is not the end of the world. There are areas and cities we can't enter and the environment did suffer a great deal of damage but we are recovering. Isn't Hirroshima a thriving city today? The major physical affects include skin cancer, infertility, infection, etc. Almost everyone has some sort of physical remnant from the war.

I am aware the concept of the Rapture is related to Christian Prophecy but I am not familiar with the details. Yes, there are people I trust here and I would hate for any harassment or harm to come to them. I am aware of the Mayan Calander but in 2012, it was not something I was able to think about. When the time comes, I'm sure people will find the signs they are looking for that leads them to the end of time.

When I say fear will keep you alive I am talking about the natural instincts and premonitions that we all trun off when its convienent. The same person who has five dead bolt locks on their door will think nothing about getting into a parking garage elevator with a total stranger. I think the fear of God is the fear of separation from God.

Some of you may wonder what a time traveler does with his day while he's posting on the web. I spend a great deal of time downloading information and storing it for my return. "Art's" site is definitely on that list. I'll have to think about who the most remembered people are. Again, my viewpoint is quite squewed.

((1)Who is the Major Super Power? ))

It depends on how you define power. If you mean military, the world has developed into an odd balance. There are plenty of nuclear weapons left but if anyone uses them they will be instantly erased from the planet by everyone else regardless of the politics. We are very tired of war.

(2) Are the two political parties still Republicans and Democrats?

There are no Republicans or Democrats to speak of. There are now over 10 major political parties.

(3) How many States are there?

The states as you know them still exist but their political power has been combined with other states around them. There are now 5 major geopolitical areas in the united states.

(4) Which states get the worst?

When you can't drink the water its bad everywhere.

(5) Were only cities along the Eastern Sea port hit in the Nuclear War, or all over the country?

Mostly cities and large military areas in the entire country.

(6) Do companys like Microsoft, Yahoo!, and other internet software companys still exist?

No.

(7) Does money look alot different than it does now? If you have a picture, could you please upload it and post the link!

No, money is pretty much the same. Unfortunately, I do not have any money with me because I wouldn't be able to use it here.

( So then when you time travel you can never actually go back to the EXACT same place you left from?

That is correct, in physical terms, I can never get back to the exact worldline I left from.

(9) Was alot of the United States' 18-24 age group slaughtered in the war because of Draft?

Yes.

(10)Do you ever get visitors from later time periods to 2036?

Not that I'm aware of but I can't say it isn't happening.

(11) Are there any other companys, besides the one you work for that have TTs and send them out regularly?

I work for the military. GE just makes the unit.

(12) Does the government know there is TT going on?

In 2036, yes.

(13) Why were YOU selected to be a TT? What gave you special qualifications?

I am related to a key figure in the development of the IBM 5100.

(14) How many TTs are there on the team that you are on? How do new recruits get selected?

My unit has between 6 and 10. When I left, there were 7 others. Military service, physical fitness, history or technical background and special relationship to target contacts get you in the door.

(15) What all countrys are on our side in the war? What all countrys are on the oposite side?

Don't have much to add there.

(16) Which country gets the worst in the war?

Again, the entire world is affected. Even if you don't take a direct hit, dying crops and no water can ruin your day.

My time traveling nemesis Javier (a.k.a. TTA) has found me yet again! As long as the links last, I do urge people to go back and take a look at some of the more insightful things you have to share.

((when i ask you a question of why you can't tell us 'there will be an earthquake in isreal in 2010..' or something of the such..this is not a question that someone could CHANGE. it is a natural disaster & i purposely chose that sort of a disaster so the question could not be passed by as you did in your response. however, you choose to use a different type of example rather than answer my question -directly-.))

I will not share information that would allow someone to avoid death by probability.

((i just think you skirt around too many issues .. & by refusing to even mention something from the 'future' that could not be -changed- by people -today-..it just gives me further evidence that you are not who you say you are.))

Again, what I think is important doesn't impress anyone and although I could point to various things I've said about other subjects the response is usually ho-hum tell us about music and sports. I suppose I could lie and make something up but what's the point?

((In fact, regardless of your background you should have a basic understanding of physics.))

I do but your questions were rather specific. I would love to talk physics and I'll be happy to walk through the operation of the unit.

((1) exposing yourself, you've very likely broken several regulations,

No, I haven't.

((2) Put yourself at risk by doing so,))

Yes, that's potential true but what I gain offsets that. Does that statement answer the question why time traveler's do not revel themselves?

((3) should know a hell of a lot more about the machines you're operating,))

I do know very much about it. I'm just not willing to share it with everyone.

((4) are inconsistent in several aspects of your posts.))

If you could point out the specific questions I will be happy to address them.

((By the way, I have some very extreme reasons to doubt that a microsignularity exists in the first place, and in the second place, if it DID exist, I doubt it would be the "size of an electron". In any case, a signularity (a black hole for those of you who haven't figured that out yet) is an extreme mass, and holding it in a magnetic field in a gravitational field as strong as Earth's would simply rip the singularity from the magnetic field causing the black hold to crash to the center of the mass of Earth. The Earth would then become part of the black hole as it grew in size, pulling in the matter of the Earth.))

I'm not sure if you want me to go over these issues one at a time or if you're just making a point.

The formula for horsepower is HP = torque X RPM / 5252.

((1. Is the Chevy truck better than the Ford truck for time travel. I always thought the TT package meant trailer towing. Geez was I wrong! Is Chevy still making time travel machines in 2036?))

The vehicle must have a strong suspension.

((2. How did you buy your truck? How could you title it if you are only 3 years old to the title bureau at this point? You won't be able to sell it in Minnesota unless it's in your name and clear. Is the Chevy newer and how did you pay for it? Did you scrounge around to find 40 year old currency in 2036? I know I wouldn't take any money from someone that had mint marks from 2036.))

Don't worry. Fortunately, these are things we're taught at time travel school in "how to get around in the sarcastic 20th century. I said I didn't have any money from 2036. I have plenty from here.

((3. Does the truck have to be running when you are travelling through time. Did you come here in a Chevy? What if you run out of gas? Are there any factory options that make it easier, like cruise control?))

The vehicle must be standing still.

[kingart]

Posted by Benedict Gumby on 02-13-2001 11:07 AM

You still haven't answered my question from page 8 }:P

Posted by John Titor on 02-13-2001 11:23 AM

((I just have this to ask you. Do you recognize the name Benedict? I want to know because I fully intend to be a prominent figure within the next 20 years))

No, I can't say that I do. However, since I'm archiving all of this and will submit it with my report, it will eventually end up on our internet.

If you want to leave a meassage to yourself in the future, please feel free to do so. I would make it broad enough so your name or some other important word will pop up in routine search engine that "you" might be using in 2036.

Also, be aware that the "you" in my 2036 will be unaware that the you left a message at all.

Posted by Blonnie Dowden on 02-13-2001 01:14 PM

my question(i just think you skirt around too many issues .. & by refusing to even mention something from the 'future' that could not be -changed- by people -today-..it just gives me further evidence that you are not who you say you are.))

your response:Again, what I think is important doesn't impress anyone and although I could point to various things I've said about other subjects the response is usually ho-hum tell us about music and sports. I suppose I could lie and make something up but what's the point?

you fail to understand why i ask the silly hum-drum questions. i do not truly care what the music/hollywood will be like in 5-10 years..my whole reason for asking the unimportant questions is because they are -unimportant-. you say that you can't answer questions about when a natural disastor occurs..or things that can be -changed- by people to alter the way they -should- happen. so i am asking questions that can NOT be changed. someone can not change the fact that "Girly G. Hottie" is the next big name in showbusiness'.. my whole reason for asking these things is so that in 5-10 years when you're "gone" i can say "holy bejezuz.., maybe that guy was for real!". that would be the extent of it..it's not like i could -do-change- anything.. i just want to know if you're real & you give no proof whatsoever that you're real. even if it's not an instantaneous realization..i would realize this when whatever you said would happen came true. i am -not- trying to be shallow w/my questions..these are no things that i -care- whether or not it's this or that.. it's just proof for me.

i'm beginning to think, as someone suggested -- that you're writing a book & this is all material for it. you said you didnt want us to be sheep & just believe..you -wanted- us to ask questions. so if we ask questions then you can sew up any holes you have in your story.. so it will be the tightest & most realisticly possibly sci-fi time travel story ever. i don't like the idea that you could possibly be using all of these people & if you are *grr* shame on you.

Posted by John Titor on 02-13-2001 01:51 PM

((my whole reason for asking the unimportant questions is because they are -unimportant-))

If it's unimportant to you why would it be imporatnat to me?

[kingart]

Posted by Blonnie Dowden on 02-13-2001 02:00 PM

you are the most frustrating time traveler i've ever met!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(ok you're the only one i've ever met) -- geez..why do you isolate that one question? the whole thing was used to mean that it was -unimportant- in the fact that just because you tell us those things ..we can not change or alter them.. they are just -proof-.. unimportant meaning why would it alter time by you telling us.. "keep an eye out for so-and-so..they will rise to fame." or something like that. we couldn't -change- that.. & if we could..why would we want to because it's "unimportant" in comparison to a bombing or drought or war..etc..

it is just PROOF THAT YOU'RE TRUE which you fail to provide.

you are aggravating.

-blonie-

Posted by James Boley on 02-13-2001 02:05 PM

There is a guy claiming your a fraud in another string entitled "I am from 2040…"

It would be interesting to see you go head to head.

Posted by Brad Jensen on 02-13-2001 02:39 PM

Fraud!!!

Go to my post in "I am from the year 2040…" and debunk my calculations on time travel.

You can't, because you are a fraud!

Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-13-2001 03:31 PM

This is getting just …weird …enough.

John Titor -- Are you being obtuse about Bonnie's inquiries for more personal reasons? Her logic is pretty sound, and you're avoiding discussing some of the things that people naturally find curious about other cultures. If I was traveling in any other cultural setting, I would want to know about … The Culture. What kind of music is popular, what kind of recreation is enjoyable, what holidays are important…

Being a bit coy, I would say, for someone who's been through the rigors of such heavy historical dramas. My guess is that there are some simple folk songs that people find some pleasure in hearing, in the future (especially after cultural destabilizing events).

Do you feel some pleasure in breathing clean air and not having to check a geiger counter every few miles?

Are there people in this time period who are hip (aware) of Time Travelers and who accept you as one? I would imagine there are folk in our time, who travel in different circles (out of the mainstream), who have some money and/or some power, and who know things that the rest of us do not. Are you, or others, in touch with people like that? How ARE you financing things?

And if this is NOT for real, working that tongue a little harder 'gainst the edge of your cheek -- for the rest of us simpletons, could earn you some game points.

Posted by Jeffery Birks on 02-13-2001 05:39 PM

I spotted few typing errors in Johns comments so I will assume that he has had an average education by our standards. There are better questions than those posed, ones which he should find easier to answer, but for anyone else would be much harder;

1. Name the immediate political succeosor's to George Bush and Tony Blair.

2. Name any human being/animal/invention which became famous from obscurity prior to today (This is really easy, just name anyone who shot to fame for anything -- provided they are completly unknown now, and that it happens soon).

3. Name any near future shock event that makes history -- political assasinations, inventions, marriages etc, same rules -- it should happen soon with nobody having a clue it was about to happen (exept maybe time-travellers).

4. If you are older than 36 then there should be 2 of you here right now. You would both possess the same basic fingerprints and DNA. If you really want to prove your case then meet up with your younger self and get some police evidence.

Posted by Angel Lynnn on 02-13-2001 06:10 PM

Exclamation

John, Would you be willing to call in on Art's show on Wednesday, Feb. 14? He will have open lines all night.

If he had a time traveler line open would you call in?

How long will you be here in 2001? When are you going back? What all are you taking back with you? Is propane still around in the future?

Thanks for taking the time to answer our questions. Angel Lynnn

[kingart]

Posted by Roy Meserve on 02-13-2001 06:43 PM

A most compelling story and an interesting person. I am no scientist so cannot question adequately the physics invol- ved in such endeavors- but I could not understand Al Bielek and his recounting of the science behind the Montauk episode either, but I know he was telling the truth. For those int- ersted, from that interview and Mr Bielek's book, I fully believe time and space travel exists,(since 1983) although under exactly whose aegis I do not presume to know. And your socio/eco/political comments about our present state and its fate are eminently believable and highly likely. I would hope that the paradise I live in would somehow be spared (the Hawaiian Islands) but I suspect it would not be spared as a strategic target for obvious reasons. Indeed, in general terms I understand innately for myself why these things must come to pass. May God have mercy on our souls.

Thanks for your own curiosity and courage. I wish you and your family only the best…for all time.

R.C. Meserve rcmeserv@lava.net

Posted by Mike Kolesnik on 02-13-2001 06:55 PM

Talking

But I will absolutely not get sucked into another "Waverider" hoax.

Come on people, don't you remember the Waverider? The Waverider and his fantastic faxes to AB? Well I do. And I admit he suckered me too…for a while. I also remember when he went on the show and made a complete fool of himself. Art finally came to his senses too and blasted him. It would be nice to find out the date he was on and get a copy of the broadcast.

Webmaster? A little help please.

Well anyway, back to the subject matter. I don't hate John and I don't dislike him either. I am nuetral about him. There is a world of difference between him and the Waverider though. John has an articulate manner of writing and has an amazing command of our present language (35 years old by him) I also went back and reread ALL his posts and I only found one spelling error and no grammatical errors, so he pretty much shames me on that count. His written content seems to be well subdued and consistent. (except for the 2004 vs. 2005 thing) John seems to be of above average IQ and conducts himself in a dignified manner.

Of course all this analysis was made from his posts so he could be an entirely different person in real life.

Since I am not completely galvanized against John I have thought about the possibility of Human TT. (ET TT is another matter)

Logically though the revelation of his TT ability still makes no sense, as he could easily question people of this time and get all sorts of info without revealing himself.

So that leads to the question why would he reveal himself if he has no stated aganda for doing so?

Some hypothesis:

1. John IS a TT'er who has a hidden agenda. It could be as simple as a gentle nudge in a certain direction. ( It aint gonna happen John, for the most part humans are a stubborn illogical lot whose memory of past events is in the area of weeks, instead of years or decades)

2. John came here to give somebody a "Back to the Future" type of push so as to invent the Time Machine. ( My opinion on this is that no one needs to "invent" the TM because if is has been built in the future then it has always been invented, and we are merely waiting for someone to "discover" it. Just look back at most of the major advancements in science, almost every invention of science already existed, it only needed people to put it together. About the only things humans have invented deal in the arts. music etc. This opinion comes from the "all times exist at once" theory.)

3. John came back for some kind of nostalgia tour and has decided to take a rest stop in 2001 ( don't stay too long John or you will become polluted by us to such an extent you will probably end up in Vegas hocking your TM at the tables!)

4. John came here to witness some catastrophic near future event and won't tell us about it (to me this would be the most plausible reason of them all because whatever he tells us would be rendered mute by the "event")

5. < your thoeries here>

Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-13-2001 07:10 PM

Smile

I'd just like to say, before John Titor, (A.K.A. TT_0 in the post where he's been taken out almost) that when he posts, he does a maneuver that focuses the question back to the receiver, as to have him think it's been answered, and to shut him up. (Which in fact, he just avoided answering it, by doing what he did). He does this very often, and I'd just wanted to point that out before he did it again.

Hey TT_0, why didn't you acknowledge my last post? It's me TTA. I know your feeling the pressure, and it's only going to get worse.

-Javier C.

P.S. You should have seen Johns reply posts to me in the beginning. He likes to use the word "Kill" alot.

Posted by John Titor on 02-13-2001 11:32 PM

((John has been unable to explain time travel, I will explain it here.))

I could be wrong but I don't recall being asked to "explain time travel". If you could point that out to me in the posts I would appreciate it.

So it's ritualized combat on the battlefield of differential geometry. It's a shame we couldn't have more constructive dialogue on the subject. Of course, I've left my physics book in the time machine so unless you snuck in a hidden land-mine, I found your opening move very straightforward. However, you're too confident I won't be able to offer an explanation that I'm sure other physics fans will appreciate. I wonder if Einstein and Grossmann did it this way or maybe they just listened to each other and tried to build on what they thought would work. Oh well.

((..and debunk my calculations on time travel. You can't, because you are a fraud!))

When I look up debunk, I see: "To expose or ridicule the falseness, sham or exaggerated claims." The reason I cannot debunk your calculations is because they are true. They are not false, based on speculative facts or exaggerated. They are just incomplete. What you really want me to do is finish your explanation or I will be an imposter.

((There are, however, certain quantities that do remain constant. These constants are related to four-dimensional quantities known as metric tensors.))

Actually, I don't think that's correct. Minkowski spacetime (4-D) will not allow you to use Pythagoas' theorem to decribe tensors because time needs to be expressed with the opposite sign. (please excuse my change of varibale case).

ds^2 = -c^2dt^2 + dx^2 + dy^2 + dz^2 (where ds describes timelike and spacelike trips).

The tensor we should be discussing is: ds^2 = -a^2dt^2 + w^2(df -- wdt)^2 + (r^2/ D)dr^2 + r^2dq^2

I hope I got the symbols right but you should be able to recognize this…right? nuts… the a, f, r, Delta and q didn't make the translation in this font.

((The US government, including the UN, has its hands in everything from biological tests to secret planes that can fly out of Earths atmosphere.))

Care to share with me how you solved the overheating problem on your spaceplane?

Javier, don't worry. I'll talk to you too. Please check again and you'll find my hello.

I will get to and review the questions I missed. I apologize if my answers seemed flippant. There are many posts I want to respond to and I am unable to pay as much attention as I would like.

Posted by Andrew Hubbard on 02-14-2001 04:10 AM

Question

This is great.

here is some questions:

1) Does the last name hubbard have any historical(is that the right term?) relevance?

2) What happens with Australia? does it play a major part in the war?

3) What colloquial language is used in the future?

4) What exactly happens to the water? does it get poisoned from radiation?

5) Have you actually met your parents? if so, what are their thoughts on you?

6) Does time have ends?

7) Lets just say that people from the future are manipulating events now, such as preventing a tragedy, making it never occur. If it never occured, no body would be sent back to stop it, which would mean that the event does take place. This would lead to the prevention of it happening again, and so on. What would happen in one of these situations?

[kingart]

Posted by Ryan Murphy on 02-14-2001 05:28 AM

John, if you really did travel through time you'd be dead. You have to take into account that the universe is expanding, the Earth, the solar system and the galaxy are all moving. If you truely did travel back through time, you'd materialize in 1970 where the Earth WILL be in 2036, which is the vacuum of space..

Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-14-2001 06:25 AM

You requested I point out some inconsistencies. I'll point out one in the following exchange between you and I. [[I do but your questions were rather specific. I would love to talk physics and I'll be happy to walk through the operation of the unit.

((1) exposing yourself, you've very likely broken several regulations,

No, I haven't.

((2) Put yourself at risk by doing so,))

Yes, that's potential true but what I gain offsets that. Does that statement answer the question why time traveler's do not revel themselves?

((3) should know a hell of a lot more about the machines you're operating,))

I do know very much about it. I'm just not willing to share it with everyone.

((4) are inconsistent in several aspects of your posts.))

If you could point out the specific questions I will be happy to address them. ]]

Specifically, you stated my questions were "rather specific" and you'd be "love to discuss physics and happy to walk through the operation (I assume of the machine)". A few lines later you state (after me saying you should know a hell of a lot more about the machines you're operating) that you do know much about it, but you're not willing to share it with everyone. So… which is it? Are you willing to share information on the operation, a walkthrough of the machine, time travel… or AREN'T YOU?

Posted by Brad Jensen on 02-14-2001 07:01 AM

You have been challenged John. You have finished the space-time manipulation calculations, but left important details out, of which we will not expound on.

Read my reply in my string. Can you explain, just basicly mind you, the time travel process?

Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-14-2001 07:18 AM

I conclude that John is:

1) Not from the future. 2) He has no time machine. 3) He is doing this for personal gain -- whether monetary, or social-interaction, but more specifically, I believe he is working on either a psychology study/degree/thesis. 4) He is in his late 20's or early 30s.

If John were a time traveler, he would not be here telling us anything about himself. He certainly would not give us information regarding anything having to do with "future technology", regardless of the divergence of timelines. You see… even a semi-unethical person would have qualms about screwing up a society that you can taste, touch, feel and experience.

If John truely IS a time traveler (which he isn't in the sense he is trying to lead us to believe) then he is here to witness an historical event that we have yet to figure out. Either the beginning of World War III (which some of us already believe is about to happen) or the beginning of Civil war. I can postulate and guess all day, at all sorts of reasons -- about all all sorts of things I can figure out on my own. In other words.. if John were a time traveler, he would be here NOW to watch something about to happen (very historical, very important…). If he would answer some questions about the physics of his alledged time ship, I would be willing to go along with this some more.

At this point… my points above (1-4) stand. John is a fraud.

Sorry John… it was fun while it lasted.

Posted by John Titor on 02-14-2001 07:25 AM

On a nearby thread, Brad writes:

((John has been unable to explain Time Travel, I will explain it here.

So where do we start? Well let us start with one of the greatest triumphs of the human mind, the great theorem of Pythagoras, a true pillar of all mathematics and physics. The theorem, which is applicable to right angled triangles in flat Cartesian (Newtonian) space takes the form of:

c^2 = a^2 + b^2

where a, b and c are the lengths of the sides of the triangle.

Next we will jump straight to Einstein's theory of Relativity which states that neither time, length, or indeed mass remain constant additive quantities when approaching the speed of light c. Our simple ideas of time and space come from the fact the we are so used to living in a three dimensional universe. Einstein showed that this was simply not true and in fact all the "foundational" three laws of Newton have to be fudged by the Lorentz factor

L_f = (1 -- v^2/c^2)^-1/2

There are, however, certain quantities that do remain constant. These constants are related to four-dimensional quantities known as metric tensors. From this Einstein proved that space and time are two aspects of the same thing and that matter and energy are also two aspects of the same thing. From the second of these concepts we get the most famous equation in physics

E = mc^2

Now since time and space are aspects of space-time and we wish to travel through time and not build atom bombs we will leave E=mc^2 for the moment. To illustrate this, look at the extension of Pythagorean theorem for the distance, d, between two points in space:

d^2 = x^2 + y^2 + z^2

where x, y and z are the lengths, or more correctly the difference in the co-ordinates, in each of the three spatial directions. This distance remains constant for fixed displacements of the origin.

In Einstein's relativity the same equation is modified to remain constant with respect to displacement (and rotation), but not with respect to motion. For a moving object, at least one of the lengths from which the distance, d, is calculated is contracted relative to a stationary observer. The equation now becomes:

d^2 = x^2 + y^2 + z^2 (1-v^2/c^2)^1/2

and this implies that the distances all shrink as one moves faster, so does this mean there are no constant distances left in the universe? The answer is that there are because of Einstein's revolutionary concept of space-time where time is distance and distance is time! So now

s^2 = x^2 + y^2 + z^2 -- ct^2

and this new distance s (remember s stands for Space-time) does indeed remain constant for all who are in relative motion. This distance is said to be a Lorentz transformation invariant and has the same value for all inertial observers. Since the equation mixes time and space up we have to always think in terms of this new concept: space-time!

Then one runs into the problem of 'outside dating'. Meaning, as the traveler manipulates space-time, the rest of the universe ages normaly. Then we must take inter-dimensional transition into account. Once a hole is ripped into a dimensions fabric, it follows whatever entered the rip. Once the travler enters the new dimension, he commences his engines to reach the c speed (speed of light), and travels through time. The rip on the travelers side will stay in the same geographic location, while traveling through time, while the rip on the new dimension will follow the traveler. Once the desired time is reached, the travelar reenters the rip, and he has effectively traveled through time))

((As for John Titor's corrections on space-time manipulation, he has completed it correctly. However, he still an imposter.))

Apparently, I have made the leap from "fraud" to imposter. At least that's a start and I respect my opponent on his polite yet quiet concession on the other thread. I wish to emphasize a point I tired to make earlier. Even though I answered the question correctly, it doesn't really prove one way or another if I'm a time traveler and you should not think otherwise. I might just be really quick at looking up things up on the web.

I suppose we could debate whether or not I'm a fraud all the way up to the point I leave your worldline.

[kingart]

Posted by Mel Reckling on 02-14-2001 08:05 AM

Why do I keep flashing back to the Monty Python movie " Brazil "? The picture of those old typewriters with those hilarious screen magnifiers just sticks in my head. Is this the world we are heading towards where everything is so bizzarely complicated that nothing works?

Posted by Ernie Vega on 02-14-2001 09:05 AM

Angry

Time out!

I thought the idea here was to have constructive dialogue. Personally I don't give a rat's behind whether or not John is from the future.

I have enjoyed this discussion more than any I've been in before. First off why the personal attacks? I've mentioned before that this guy is a study in self control. He never sinks to the level of the aggressor, some of us could learn from that.

NEWS FLASH: In case somebody here has not noticed! When was the last time you spoke with someone as intelligent and well versed in these subjects?

I hope John or whatever his name is writes a book. I'll publish him if he wants.

The story John tells is sobering, realistic, and ENTERTAINING. The last time I looked participation here was discretionary. If you don't like the subject, either question the guy, expose the guy, or leave the guy alone. Alternatively you can learn from what he says. I don't understand all the personal attacks.

Let's say that John is a "confused person" would it not be kinder to help him regain his senses, than to attack him.

Let's say he's writing a book. Hey John "great story" when does the book come out.

Let's say he's a hoaxer and really enjoys deceiving everyone and lies all the time. Mr. Titor we have a job for you in D.C. after the "Neanderthal" gets voted out in 4 years.

I know people who would consider John's world a reasonable improvement over what we have today. I agree with them. If you had to guess what John's political affiliation was what would you say?

Democrat Republican Libertarian Independent Conservative Liberal

None of it fits does it? I have revelation for you This guy is "an American".

As gloomy a picture as he paints, the society he describes is leaps and bounds ahead of us in their reverence for the Constitution which as John says we should all read.

JC has been on this guy's case for a while now and I don't see "Titor" insulting him or anyone else.

As to the frequency of the word "kill" in his posts. so what? it proves nothing and if you look at all the posts that statement is invalid.

Go read some of Ed Dames's garbage.

I'm not here to defend John I'm expressing my frustration with the posters that derive their ego gratification by attacking others and hitting below the belt.

By below the belt I mean "unwarranted personal attacks"

Read the rules of this BBS, you'll see that it's supposed to be an open forum for "discussions from the other side of the fence" if you want namby pamby traditional BS go to the Rush Limbaugh show, or maybe you like born again Christian lies, Jerry Fallwell has a few books to sell you.

To the physicists and physics enthusiasts. Let's see your proof, your CV, and your school transcripts. Do you want to talk about verifiable backgrounds? Why don't you subject yourself to the same scrutiny that you subject others to. Most serious physicists would be hard pressed to come "here" of all places and "demand" empirically tested responses from a guy who claims to be from 2036. Get a clue!

I suggest that if he is an attention monger hoaxer, he got you. He made you get flustered and loose your sense of decorum. Your folly not his.

Before I forget. Anyone who has been on the Internet longer than 5 minutes knows that spelling errors, and grammatical errors are not considered to be indicative of a person's intelligence, or educational background.

No I will not engage in name calling on a personal basis, and I won't respond to flame e-mails, and I won't be posting any more in this thread. Some of you are childish and have a mob mentality. who wants to discuss time travel, physics, or the time of day, with a lynch mob.

Peace [Edited by Ernie Vega on 02-14-2001 at 09:16 AM]

Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-14-2001 09:44 AM

"NEWS FLASH: In case somebody here has not noticed! When was the last time you spoke with someone as intelligent and well versed in these subjects? "

Well… last time *I* personally spoke to someone about these subjects who is as 'well-versed' was about 30 minutes ago when I came from speaking to a couple of physicists upstairs. Somehow, I end up speaking to a lot of these types of folks (physicists) -- I guess it might have something to do with the job I do for the government.

"The last time I looked participation here was discretionary. If you don't like the subject, either question the guy, expose the guy, or leave the guy alone. Alternatively you can learn from what he says. I don't understand all the personal attacks. "

You're right, however, I don't think we are attacking him, we are QUESTIONING HIM. Somehow I always see this out of liberally-biased people, when someone is being quizzed, these liberally-biased people complain of attacks when they (or their heros) can't answer questions to someone's satisfaction. He has not answered questions to anyone's satisfaction thus far. He has subjected himself to our scrutiny and you are jumping to his defense because you feel bad for him? Don't. He put himself in this position. He is responsible for the questions, not you.

"Let's say that John is a "confused person" would it not be kinder to help him regain his senses, than to attack him. Let's say he's writing a book. Hey John "great story" when does the book come out. "

Not at all. John is not confused. John is also not a time traveler, but he has a fantastic imagination. That much is true. Political correctness is not my forte, nor do I profess that anyone use it anymore. It is passe. Sorry. PC is thought control, and being NICE to someone so as not to hurt their feelings is a by-gone thing, of another era.

"Let's say he's a hoaxer and really enjoys deceiving everyone and lies all the time. Mr. Titor we have a job for you in D.C. after the "Neanderthal" gets voted out in 4 years. "

Hmmm… now, you bring me to the point of asking you -- why are you now attacking the President of the United States? What has he to do with any of this? Why are you calling him a Neanderthal? Because your guy, Gore, lost the election? I'm sorry you feel that way, especially since you seem to think we ought to be nice to John and not attack him (even though we weren't). You thought, more than likely, we should have been nice to Clinton as well. I expect you to act the same way as you expect me to act. Don't attack the President (in particular since he has nothing to do with this conversation).

The one thing I can agree with you that was mentioned, that I didn't quote here was the idea of spelling errors, grammer errors and such. I'm certain I have spelling errors. I have almost 21 years of hard-core "schooling" and I make serious spelling errors all the time. That includes over 9 years of college, thoughout which, writing was one of the most important aspects. We all make errors, in spelling… judgement. Perhaps we could all be nicer to those of us who make spelling errors.

However, Ernie, when one places himself up for study, as has John, then one needs to understand that there will be questions. These are not attacks (as your crude comments about the President of the United States were), but questions concerning his veracity. Question yourself, before you judge others motives. I've questioned MYSELF on whether I should even consider joining this discussion. I did so based solely on my inherit need to know about things like time travel. I asked legitimate questions. They were ignored, then later, when I asked others, they were skirted. John is therefore, either a liar, writer or a man who simply doesn't want to get caught in a circle of lies from which he can not extract himself. That is too bad.

I really hoped it was the real thing, this time.

[kingart]

Posted by Kennith Viccars on 02-14-2001 09:50 AM

This is no more then a comedy sketch thread now.

Keep it coming, it's great material.

John, you ever consider doing stand up?

Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-14-2001 10:24 AM

http://pub2.ezboard.com/fmagisystemstimelordsanonymus.showMessage?topicID=53.topic

In case anyone is interested is looking at them.

Posted by Ernie Vega on 02-14-2001 02:53 PM

Red face

Touche? Rick:

I would have sent this to you personally but you won't accept e-mails. Your web site is unreachable. and ICQ is not an option for me. Do you actually use ICQ from work? where there is sensitive information?

I admit it was naive indeed for me to think I could get away with my last post without being taken to task for it.

So I hereby eat my words about not posting anymore. I guess that makes me a liar also.

Why did you assume I was directing my comments to you? my statements were not an indictment of your questions in particular. In fact I didn't consider "your" statements as an attack at all until you called JT a liar.

I'm not defending Titor or his claims, he did not answer some of my question to my satisfaction either, but I don't take that to mean I have license to call him a liar. Do you call everyone that doesn't give you a satisfactory answer a liar? if so does that really make sense?

As to scrutiny being self inflicted. I have personal experience there also.

If you care to look. I make statements on my web sites that yield thousands of e-mails pro and con. I deal with controversial topics, I write about them, and I market alternative energy devices. I use physics in my work every day.

Can you explain the mechanics of creating a trans-dimensional vortex?

What would happen if you mixed equal parts 4oz each of: bronzing powder, epoxy, and bee's wax,and NASA grade quartz, then into it you introduce a gold plated rod, introduce 2 coils, one on each side. Attach a tone generator to each coil reversing the polarities. Then attach a power supply of to each tone geneator say, 12 volts / 500 Ma. Once the epoxy sets up. Set one generator to pulse at 18 hz and the other at 11hz and pushed the on button? What would happen? any clue? If you could get this to spin at say 3600 rpm what would happen then?

What would the use of pi as opposed to phi in a formula for attenuating a static EMF do to a multidimensional construct?

If you could see zero point energy what color would it be?

Is there a sub-atomic particle that requires being aknowledged before it can be measured? If so explain why?

Why does water have molecular memory? If it does, does it mean we don't need to use drugs anymore, and we can just charge water with a sample?

How is homeopathic medicine prepared? do you really believe that, a homeopath in Schenectady New York has the equipment to perform a 40 million to 1 dilution of a microgram of some substance with any degree of accuracy?

I have my fair share of supporters and detractors regarding my life work, and political ideology. I have been called everything you can imagine that is unpleasant, by people that don't know me at all. Excuse me if I take issue with this. Notice how quickly you labeled me a liberal. Why Rick? was it something I said? or did you make other assumptions about me? based on my profile? or my surname?

I don't deny anyone's right to say what they want. In fact I'll go to the mat for free speech. That's a basic right we have here in the U.S.

Your profile implies that you are a patriotic American. If so why don't you see what Titor is really doing. Patriotism is something near and dear to me. My family has lost much in defense of idealism.

My family has been involved in the military, government, and diplomacy for 900+ years, in many nations where my ancestors have lived starting with Spain and culminating here. I take politics and politicians very seriously, and you should also since they are the manipulators of our society, and attempt to architect our way of thinking.

All I know about you is in your profile and your post. None of it is enough for me to feel the need to insult you, or be condescending to you as your post was to me. I don't know you!

For the record.

I don't think anyone who ran for office last november was worth a vote.

I'm not a liberal.

Gore was never "my" guy.

Clinton is no better no worse than any other politician.

If P.C. is passe why can't I say the President is a neanderthal.

If you really like "guns, shooting" and you are interested in democracy, you should be reading the writing on the wall, like many other patriots.

In the not so distant future you may have to actually live up to the Patriotic ideal that gun advocates talk about all the time, and actually have to go out and defend the Constitution. Would you do this? I would, against all enemies foreign and domestic. This includes the governmet by the way.

I don't think the enemy is "Black" or "Hispanic" or from the middle east. If you have to fight for your country and your family during your lifetime it will most likely be against Americans of all races.

The office of the President of the United States is the most important job on the planet. Much depends on the President's ability to think, and act in a decisive and clear fashion, our lives depend on it.

Although I don't know President Bush personally, nor would I care to make his acquaintance. It is common knowledge that in the brain department he is (let's be P.C. so you don't have a partisan fit) to say the least "challenged". This is a matter of record not conjecture. Surely you are not going to deny that.

What would be your guess as to Dan Quaile's IQ? Would you argue that point of light? 2 less than brilliant people as President, and Vice President in a row says as much about Republicans, as the Clinton scandals, and Gore's ineptitude say a about the democrats.

Can you honestly state here that in the last 8 years you did not voice any opinion about Clinton, or something personally disparaging about him or his wife. Did you ever call Carter a coward?

Did you just start your job at the government? if you started before the new administration why are you so quick to jump to your new boss's defense and so quick to indict your previous boss?

If you could, would you debate the President on internal issues? or foreign policy? I would. According to the Constitution everyone is fair game for scrutiny "especially" the President.

A large segment of the population has become indifferent to the actions of the FED. We are all going to pay dearly for acting like "sheep".

Government Phycisists do not really discuss time travel with "System Engineers". Unless they are just conjecturing to impress you, and don't really know much more than you do.

If they did they would go to jail for telling you. Unless of course you have adequate security clearance, in which case "you" would likely be in breech discussing it here. Moreover you would already know the truth about time travel, so there would be no point in seeking it here.

Working for the government does not of itself give you access to classified information. I worked for the government in the past and all it got me was an education in government squandering of taxpayer money.

You are a systems Engineer working for a government agency right? I have a 5 questions for you. What happens to your budget next year if you don't use up all of this year's allotment? What happens to the hardware that your agency replaces with newer models? Have you ever performed a partisan task while on the job? Have you ever made a political contribution to keep your job? Have you ever used your office PC to surf the web for non work related reasons? See how easy it is to take a cheap shot.

It was government scientists that decided that Heroin addicts in methadone programs were being descriminated against when denied work driving Trains and buses, even piloting aircraft, or as air traffic controllers. The rationale was that since some addicts showed agitation, and others became lethargic, that in general Methadone does not have a deleterious effect on concentration, and coordination. They actually went as far as to publish that Methadone only has a placebo effect and does not produce a high.

Going to credibility and proof? Just how much is enough for you?

If I were to tell you a story that was fantastic in nature and read like a science fiction book. This story would relate meetings with high ranking Military officers, DOD operatives, The CIA. It dealt with UFO, E.T., global politics, and manipulation of the American press by foreign operatives in cahoots with the CIA. Would you believe?

I think not.

What if you were able to verify that all of the above actually took place by checking declassifed documents, addresses, military records, police reports, individual personal validation by witnesses, and the only thing you could not know for sure was what was discussed at these meetings.

Would you then believe? I doubt it, why? because the actual facts (the conversations) can't be verified.

I have lived such a story and I know I could never prove it to anyone's satisfaction, yet it really happened to me, I was nearly killed. I even have permission from the government to tell anybody I want because they know there's not a snowball's chance in hell that anyone (that counts)would believe it.

I have considered fictionalizing it but it irks me to have to lie so people will take me seriously. Since I don't need the money, and I don't want to have to respond to every question posed to me, intelligent or not, I choose to keep it to myself and my friends.

My point is that as hard as you try on this board, there is no way you are going to find the truth (about time travel at least)you are looking for until someone pulls up to you in a time machine and takes you to another time.

I enjoy a good debate as much as the next guy, and Im prepared to back up all my statements. I do however require a certain amount of civility to enter into protracted debate, as I believe that the moment you lose perspective, the conversation becomes moot.

I do feel that some personal attacks are valid. If a person is harming others with his statements, and has been "proven" to be dishonest, and malicious in intent. Like the President for instance I have no problem with anyone taking them on on a personal level. I do it so I would be a hypocrite to expect others not to.

Again I appeal to you to e-mail me if you want to carry this any further we are off topic now.

Peace

[kingart]

Posted by Heather Cattles on 02-14-2001 03:40 PM

I have to agree with Ernie in some aspects. So what if you don't believe he's a true time traveller? Leave it at that. I'm always open to ideas, I neither poo poo them nor do I automatically say their true. I like to say I sit on a line between where I can go either way. I'm not frowned upon because I make descisons too fast. There's a lot in this world we don't know.. everything from creatures, to diseases to even time travel.

Personally I find this thread interesting, without a lot of the just totally putting John down. If you don't believe him fine, leave it at that. John, you are an interesting person and I'm here and I enjoy seeing your replys, be it real or not. I'm just glad to see a person or two remaining cool in this and not going towards personal attacks.

John, if you are a true time traveller, when you leave to go back to the future, give my "Hello" to the future.

-Heather

Posted by Andrew Hubbard on 02-14-2001 05:13 PM

I feel my earlier questions were written without much thought. I have read all of your posts, and although I don't 'believe', I do find what you are saying very very interesting. I would like to rephrase a few of my questions, In hope that it may make it easier for you to answer (feel free to just answer yes/no). I am mainly interested in the roles/parts Australia plays (as I live here) in the war and then the general way of life after the war. I understand you may not have much information reguarding other countries, but I thought I would ask anyway.

1) What role does Australia play in the war? You stated elsewhere that they repulse a Chinese invasion -- Does this mean Australian government side with your enemy? (As I think I recall you stating that they allied with your side + Russia… Could be wrong though.) 2) Does intercontinental transportation still exist? If so, have you visited other countries?

On a more observational note, the world you describe reminds me of the post sacked Trantor in Asimov's 'Foundation' series. And that makes me smile.

Thanks

Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-14-2001 07:48 PM

Smile

John,

Why do you not answer people's questions, but only answer certain questions that they ask?

Here's a question, why not answer Rick's Post? He brought out some good points, I'm sure there worth commenting on. And I'm pretty sure lots of people here would love to hear your input on them.

-J.C.

Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-15-2001 01:09 AM

Well John, I imagine you are here gathering technology for the forces of "Good" -- or at least for the forces of just plain old decent folk doing the best they know how.

Today's news stories

"In a news report reminiscent of the days of the old USSR, Pravda recently claimed that Pres. Bush's National Security Adviser, Condoleezza Rice, made belligerent comments about Russia to the magazine El Figaro. Only problem: Rice was never interviewed with El Figaro. Rice's office tells NewsMax.com most of the claims made in the reports were fabricated."

Any idea whose provoking this?

…and this one

"MOSCOW ---- The Russian military held air exercises near Norway and Japan on Wednesday, forcing fighter jets in both countries to scramble and eliciting a strong protest from Japan, which said the planes violated its airspace.

Japan's Foreign Ministry called in a Russian diplomat to protest and the defense agency said the Russian military planes violated Japanese airspace twice.

…

"Russia has sharply increased test flights of its planes since NATO's campaign in Kosovo," said Alexander Pikayev, a military analyst at the Carnegie Endowment's Moscow office. "The military wants to show that it's too early to write Russia off."

"Whether they violated airspace of not, that's not the key thing," said Pavel Felgenhauer, an independent military analyst. "They were demonstrating the rebirth of Russia's military might."

Pikayev said Wednesday's exercises may also be a response to recent signals from Washington that Russia no longer occupies a privileged place in U.S. foreign policy.

____

I got about 70-80% of your dimension ripping tutorial, BTW. Thanks

[kingart]

Posted by Chad Dirks on 02-15-2001 01:12 AM

Hrm, Mr. Titor, I do not believe anything that you have said, nor do I believe that you are in any manner what you claim to be.

…you are of course, welcome to hold the same opinion of myself, but since this does appear to be a forum for discussion, I shall try to lend what I can, yes?

(Please forgive my lacking grammar, and by all means, don't feel forced to read or respond, this is quite lengthy.)

1. You have claimed several times that you will not participate in assisting anyone to get out of 'death by probability'. Yet any number of the things that you have said could have already caused an individual to do or not do something that will now result in them either dying, or escaping death an otherwise fated death.

It does not matter whether or not everyone believes you. For every statement made there are people who believe you, and there are people changing their living patterns in response to those beliefs. There is no way for you know there is no future world leader reading this and believing.

----------------------------------------

2. You claim that you have no interest in proving to us that you are a time-traveller. To hear you take such a stance is laughable. Look at what a show you have put on here. Instead you tell us that you only wish us to make us aware of time-travel as a possiblity (see #1 again), or that you only wish to observe us and speak of cultural and religious issues, something interesting to a historian.

You came and posted on this site with one intention that was clear as of your first post: to make us believe that you are a time-traveller. You have continued this thread for that purpose alone, and I find everything you have done supports this.

As far as wishing to speak of issues regarding our humanity, or culture, it is quite clear that this is not your intention (contrary to what you insist). If you truly wished to do this your first line would not have been, 'I am a time-traveller'. If you truly wished to do this you would not have continued this thread once you realized that line would not serve your claimed goals.

You certainly did not expect to examine our humanity or culture by first telling us that we would be disucussing it with a time-traveller. The entirety of this thread has been: you developing your story.

This thread that you have continued to participate in has gone entirely counter to your claimed goals, and it is obvious that you are knowingl fueling it in that direction.

----------------------------------------

3. "5100 I have now required a couple of special "tweaks" that had to be done by one of the software engineers in 1975"

"We need something portable. The 5100 isn't required for its reliability, its needed to translate between APL, UNIX and a few obscure IBM mainframe languages."

I find it very difficult to belive that a software tweak (hence 'software engineers', -software-) done to a 1975 machine could cause it to do this translation more effectively or more portably than something around even today. I find it almost impossible to believe that a tweak done by a 'software engineer' in 1975 could provide for you something that you could find at no other place between now and 'your time', and certainly without having to make a stop-over in our time to get back that far.

Furthermore, I find the notion that one of a limited number of time-machines would be used in this manner to be nothing short of nonsensical. There are more effective ways to accomplish what you claim in this regard.

----------------------------------------

4. I have, and continue to believe Dr. Hawking's view in regards to the possibility of time travel if indeed the model of time is what you have suggested, that all possibilities occur in different time-lines, in different universes is the way that time truly is. For this reason alone I cannot accept you. It is entirely logical, and I have seen no good case to counter it.

----------------------------------------

You claim that you have no desire to prove your story to us, yet everything you have done from the moment you first posted here has flown in the face of that. As I mentioned before, your desire is so strong that you have even appeared to become heated in manner in reaction to your validity being questioned.

What is more, you bring with you the claim that you will tell us no names, no locations, or any specifics as a result of your supposed ethics. If those were indeed the ethics you were committed to and reasoned with, you would not be here now.

However, I do commend you on engineering your story, as by its very nature we cannot prove it false. [I realize that I am only feeding this frenzy, but that speaks for what it is and what Mr. Titor has indeed accomplished, it is effective in provoking a response, but then again, so is stepping on a rusty nail]

Mr. Titor: ==================================== I visit with a pink unicorn in the garden behind my house at night and it talks to me. I would show it to you but it only comes out when I am alone. Any attempts to trick it to do otherwise would be unsuccessful, but you are certainly welcome to try and prove what I say false. [Edited by Chad Dirks on 02-15-2001 at 01:34 AM]

Posted by Ryan Murphy on 02-15-2001 02:41 AM

Buddy.. listen..

This is for all you other believers to:

Time travel may be possible, but if you were to time travel, you would NOT land on Earth. You would land in a vacuum of space. You have to take into account that the universe is expanding, the Earth, the solar system and the galaxy are all moving. If you truely did travel back through time, you'd materialize in 1970 where the Earth WILL be in 2036, which is NOT Earth.. it's space.

Get it? You'd be dead. It's impossible.

Answer this factoid, John, and I will believe you until the ends of the Earth.

Posted by Dan Rouse on 02-15-2001 07:54 AM

Ryan…couldn't distance be expressed as a function of time?

If that's true, is it not possible that a time warp implies a space warp?

Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-15-2001 08:07 AM

Heather, Ernie and others.. I did leave it at that. Haha. I posted my opinion. That's all I was doing. For the record, I have answered Ernie's letter offline due to the length of the response, and the fact that it is offtopic to a great extent, I did not post it here.

I have nothing against John Titor, Ernie or anyone else. I'm simply trying to get to the bottom of the story. Unless, and until John comes forward with more information, my opinion is formed and won't change.

I did however, post pictures of his time machine (actually, I posted the link where you can find them.. let me be more specific, I've never seen this thing in peson, though I would like to see it).

If John wants a way to prove anything -- which from his previous posts he has stated he DOESN'T WANT TO DO -- then I am more than willing to look over his proofs. However -- just because I were to look something over gives no more meaning to the rest of you than it would if one of you looked his stuff over, believed it then told ME.

You see.. we live in a time when we must see to believe. All of us.

I think the thread is very interesting myself. I think the guy that called us Sheep is wrong and it is folks like HIM that completely close off education and communication. *I* am not trying to do so. I simply made some statements that I don't believe John is "for real". If he is, I would love to know he is. However, so far, he hasn't put enough evidence forward. So… PLEASE continue the thread and learn, if you can, the truth.

That's all *I* want.

Posted by Ryan Murphy on 02-15-2001 08:08 AM

It would be impossible to calculate where the Earth would be, either 30 years ago or 30 years from now.

[kingart]

Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-15-2001 08:28 AM

Hi All

I can see why Mr. Titor enjoys this.

You guys are pretty passionate about your beliefs. Then again, that's what its all about.

Going over a few of the posts, and I say that they are full of the classical -- "I find it hard to believe, therefore I declare it to be impossible" -- types of postulates. I can see the levels you are defining, in some cases, -- and I can see that they are encompassed in possibilities you are not considering

Ex.

--I find it very difficult to belive that a software tweak (hence 'software engineers', -software-) done to a 1975 machine could cause it to do this translation more effectively or more portably than something around even today. I find it almost impossible to believe that a tweak done by a 'software engineer' in 1975 could provide for you something that you could find at no other place between now and 'your time', and certainly without having to make a stop-over in our time to get back that far. --

Also, Ryan -- I think John has provided some explanation regarding how positionings are affected by the mass and gravity of known OBJECTS. I would have to study the posts a little more carefully, though I would say that the variables used in computing projected postionings, rely heavily on detecting these known masses as opposed to trying to figure out where they would end up in space (and time).

One of the first assumptions I would discard is that physics suppositions are "either/or" proposals. My view (with a few years under my belt), is that things work more fluidly than that.

In viewing the following models take into consideration that the degrees I am talking about, are minuscule with respect to their effects on human activity -- that's why the "10%-15%" divergence over some 60 years, sounds OK to me.

If you looked at a weather system of HIGH and LOW pressures, and fronts, you would see isobaric "circles" that delineate common weather areas. Correlate these fields, as local "areas" or "eras" of time. Again the differences regarding how fast time "moves" in these "circles", would be slight and perhaps unnoticeable. They would be enough, though, to provide "circles of common interaction" and (significantly, I believe), would also provide some sort of common playing field or "fabric" -- for all the individuals within that area. Moving into other regions or circles, would be fluid transistions (as opposed to "either/or" transistions). I believe such a move would also precipitate new experiences. You might then have to deal with, what Terrence McKenna termed "DEGREES OF NOVELTY AND HABIT". Moving into other "topographical areas", you would also have to "shift gears" … your "sense of timing" would be a bit off, until you either found some groove of activity that you could fall into, or until you could create new ways of "being" and acting, to handle the new circumstances. The effects of novelty could be noticed in little things like misteps and mistakes, or unintended synchronicities that might seem to alter your path. The effects of falling into normal routines would soon cause your new environment to loose its "newness".

Similarly, a geo-topological map (rings of altitudes) works the same in depicting (minor) GRAVITATIONAL fields. Again, I would think the degrees in gravitational differences, would be unnoticeably present, though present non-the-less.

Within these geographical "circles" of time, and gravitational pulls, people work out certain local and global destinies and intentions. These then cumulate into cultural topologies.

Given this model, the "degrees of separation" can only have extended effects depending on the interactivities of field compontents (you and me, or even other living things). John's interactions on these boards probably have little effect on what's going on in a small school room in the Ukraine, or a in hospital grieving area outside of Tokyo, at this very moment. They might have more of an effect on how you handle you're work day after spending a morning reading posts, though. They might even have an effect on how a co-worker or fellow commuter handles their evening after they've been around you.

Discussions regarding such potential realities do seem to be a good way to get people to think -- Its about time, after all .

Posted by Lee Heggy on 02-15-2001 08:31 AM

It's very possible to calculate such coordinates but you have to have a reference point to start from that is static in relation to the motion of the solar system and the rest of the universe. We know what direction we are moving in. You merely have to plot the points along that linear track. You would also want to be very careful and exact or you would end up inside of a cow or worse.

Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-15-2001 08:31 AM

Actually, Ryan, that isn't true.

I can, given the right software not only calculate the specific location of the earth 30 years ago, where it will be thirty years hence.

Based on the presumption that the sun is sitting still you can calculate the precise location of the earth at any time.

Given that the above is not true -- that is the sun is traveling through space at several thousand miles per second, as well, as the planets moving about it, and the entire arm of the galaxy in which we reside is moving as well… it is more difficult, BUT not impossible.

As Captain Kirk once said to his crew after the battle with Khan, "he is thinking in two dimensions only"… we are thinking in three only. The fourth, time, is traveling away from us as precisely the same rate as it was a few moments ago. Given this we can calcuate the exact location based on several factors, knowing the current location of the sun, the past location of the sun and then figuring the future location of the sun.

Given this, we know that our Eart travels in an ellipse around the sun at a given speed over 365.25 days per year. That tells us the Earth will be in a specific location 30 years from now.

Personally, I've taken tracking programs meant for satellites and calulated the projected location of Near Earth Asteroids several times. If *I* can do it, certainly an advanced computer from the future can figure out where we are now.

Rick

Posted by Mel Reckling on 02-15-2001 10:05 AM

John,

How would someone that came here with no money all of the sudden have plenty of money now? You could have brought the lowest denomination coin of your time with a mint mark anywhere after 2001 and probably convinced almost all of us. At least some people. It would be hard to fake.

Posted by Simon Wiggins on 02-15-2001 10:35 AM

Cool

(1) Simply inscribe your knowledge of any large scale events (disasters, discoveries, etc etc) over the next six months (there should be at least one memorable example) into a text file.

(2) Encrypt said text file.

(3) Give text file to a custodian. I sure Art Bell would volunteer, he's very interested in time travel.

(4) In six months time give Art the encryption key and he can reveal what you said.

Easy !

It doesn't affect any timelines for that covered six months. Art can't peek, even if he wants to, which he probably would.

Thanks, Simon.

Posted by Matt Hagemeier on 02-15-2001 10:41 AM

Does anybody here remember Marc Wade from the old BBS board. He was the first time travler, if I remember right, he talked of a future solcialistic, self supporting society as well, a ww3, millions die, and so on, but I can't remember what time he said he was from.

Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-15-2001 11:12 AM

I also remember "The Sun Is Not Real" in which a poster had me in stitches with his theory that the present sun was switched to a holographic representation, in the late 70's? early 80's.

[kingart]

Posted by Randy Empey on 02-15-2001 11:40 AM

Mr. Murphy --

If you are standing still on the surface of the earth, does the earth move away from you as the years progress?

It is not neccesary to calculate and then adjust for the exact location of the earth realitive to some static frame of reference like the center of the galaxy or some magic 'origin' point. Everything is relative. A TT blessed with a TT-device capable of traveling through time while standing still relative to the earth wouldn't have to worry much about where the earth would be 30 years into the future -- because he and his device are already moving in such a way that he will be in the same place 30 years down the time axis.

Of course this is assuming that einstien's physics was at least accurate enough for such purposes. That is yet to be proven, but it has held strong for more than half a century, as a general case.

But the reality that makes his theory seem to work makes you argument next to moot.

John T. --

Are we having fun yet?

How 'bout some philosophy.

What is your conception of the nature of reality?

Is it subjective or objective?

Is there one grand reality, or is it 'to each his own'?

Do you think there are any absolutes? If so, in which contexts?

Things of that nature . . . has our understanding (on the level of society you fit into) changed in these respects?

Does sin exist?

What happens when you die?

Etcetera Etcetera Etcetera . . .

-- Randy E.

P.S. -- Personally, I don't understand why it is so important to the people who post here that they believe you . . . communications, such that they are, make perfect understanding between individuals dicey at best . . . how can I be sure that something that is in my 'reality' is in yours? How can anybody be sure of anything? Keep thinking . . . and perhaps, share your thoughts with those here which read first and write later.

Posted by Ernie Vega on 02-15-2001 11:45 AM

Smile

Hi all: I've read Rick's note and thank him for it. I have no animosity towards Rick or anyone else. At the risk of being corrected I believe Rick and I have worked out our difference of opinion. At least to my satisfaction.

bye for now

Posted by John Titor on 02-15-2001 12:07 PM

My Motive:

I've been in your time a bit longer than I had expected. My next opportunity to go home comes in the spring. For most of my adult life, I have read about, wondered and debated about this time. I value this opportunity to share experiences. If you absolutely believed I was a time traveler, with no skepticism whatsoever, then we would be unable to communicate. The focus of our attention would then always be on the machine. The experiences, opinions and reasons you do things are just as valid as mine and just as different. I hope to return home with a better understanding of why you think and believe the way you do. Although I do understand the reasons for asking, I won't gain from any communication with you by spouting physics formulas and pop culture predictions. Please do not assume I am purposely avoiding questions. I am human, I get tired, and I forget things. Please, just remind me if I missed a question and I will get to it.

I do have one tip though. If you want me to go over your post in detail put, "Hey John, you're a big Jerk." at the end of the insightful and logical part, not the beginning. In fact, maybe you could just abbreviate it and put a number rating from 1-100 next to it so I know how strong you feel. Something like, HJYABJ (78). It would save space.

The Physics of Time Travel:

ACCELERATION = TIME DIALATION As pointed out earlier, acceleration will produce time dilation. This can be observed by the "twins paradox". As one twin stays on Earth, the other twin in his accelerating spaceship experiences a slower passing of time. When he returns to Earth, he is noticeably younger than his twin who aged normally in Earth time. This type of "time travel" (should have been proven already on this worldline) with atomic clock experiments. With sufficient power, this type of time travel will only provide practical displacement in a future direction. This type of time travel is also isolated to a single worldline. You will not meet yourself.

GRAVITY = ACCELERATION As Einstein pointed out with his STR, the effects of gravity and acceleration are the same. Therefore, you will experience the same time travel effects in the twin paradox by being close to a large gravity source. In the atomic clock experiments mentioned above, the reason there was a difference in time was not because the clock in the plane was moving, it was because the clock in the well was closer to the center of the Earth. Constant speed is not acceleration.

LARGE GRAVITY = STATIC BLACK HOLE The next step is to find a large gravity source to use in your time machine. Static black holes provide this type of power. As one twin approaches the event horizon or edge of the black hole, the other twin will watch him as he appears to slow down. He will notice his twin's watch run slower until it stops at the event horizon. The twin moving toward the horizon will notice none of this and see his watch running just fine. Although possible, a trip into a static black hole will not take you to another worldline and it's one-way. The force of gravity will crush you.

ROTATING BLACK HOLE = DONUT-SHAPED SINGULARITY Fortunately, most black holes are not static. They spin. Spinning black holes are often referred to as Kerr black holes. A Kerr black hole has two interesting properties. One, they have two event horizons and two, the singularity is not a point, it looks more like a donut. These odd properties also have a pronounced affect on the black hole's gravity. There are vectors where you can approach the singularity without being crushed by gravity. (For those interested in seeing a graphic of a photon trip through a Kerr black hole, try here) http://qso.lanl.gov/~bromley/nu_nofun.html

DONUT-SHAPED SINGULARITY = PASSAGE INTO ALTERNATE WORLDLINE Another other more interesting result of passing through a donut singularity is that you travel through time by passing into another universe or worldline. Please see Penrose diagrams for Kerr Black holes or you can examine the calculations of Frank Tipler.

So now the problem becomes….where do we find a donut-shaped singularity?

A PONDERING HAWKING = MICROSINGULARITY Steven Hawking proposed the existence of microsingularities that were created in the big bang. They were probably about the size of a proton and disappeared over the years due to an effect of radiation evaporation. (Yes, black holes do emit energy.)

HIGH ENERGY PHYSICS = ARTIFICIAL MICROSINGULARITY When I first started posting online a few months ago, I said that major breakthroughs in particle physics were around your corner. Soon, CERN will bring their big machine on line and they will be smashing very fast and high-energy particles together. One of the more odd and potentially dangerous items produced from this incease in energy will be microsingularities a fraction of the size of an electron. (for those who would like to follow the developments at CERN) http://public.web.cern.ch/Public/Welcome.html

ARTIFICIAL MICROSINGULARITY = LOCALIZED KERR FIELD Through trial and error, and although they are quite heavy, hot and capable of putting out a great deal of energy (300 -- 500 megawatts), it's discovered that these microsingularities can be electrified and captured. It is also interesting to note at this point that electrified singularities also have two event horizons. By spinning these various microsingularities, a localized Kerr field is created.

LOCALIZED KERR FIELD = TIPLER SINUSOID By using two microsingularites in close proximity to each other, it is possible to create, manipulate and alter the Kerr fields to create a Tipler gravity sinusoid. This field can be adjusted, rotated and moved in order to simulate the movement of mass through a donut-shaped singularity and into an alternate world line. Thus, safe time travel.

I will continue with the individual posts next. Thank you for your patience.