The Occult

[Bart Ell]

You’re married?

All my wives and girlfriends love me.

[GravitySucks]

All my wives and girlfriends love me.

That’s understandable.

[ponyboysunset]

All my wives and girlfriends love me.

Now is this a poly situation or are they all separate from one another? And of course they love you. LOL

[Peter Wyngarde]

I personally think science is its own religion in a way.

No it isn't. Science uses evidence, religion makes up stories without any evidence for them. If new information becomes available then scientists change their mind. If you try to change the views of a religion you end up having a war. If science was a religion, the Einsteinians and the Newtonians would have killed each other. Instead, everyone simply examined the data and found that Einstein was correct and that Newtonian mechanics doesn't answer all the questions any more.

Everybody uses science all the time. If you didn't you'd be dead. It's not a religion, it's just the best method we have for finding the truth about reality.

[ponyboysunset]

No it isn't. Science uses evidence, religion makes up stories without any evidence for them. If new information becomes available then scientists change their mind. If you try to change the views of a religion you end up having a war. If science was a religion, the Einsteinians and the Newtonians would have killed each other. Instead, everyone simply examined the data and found that Einstein was correct and that Newtonian mechanics doesn't answer all the questions any more.

Everybody uses science all the time. If you didn't you'd be dead. It's not a religion, it's just the best method we have for finding the truth about reality.

The ritualistic nature of science reminds me of religion. The way experiments are conducted would be a similar way I see it. As far as new information goes I believe the Catholic church has become quite progressive with the latest Pope much to the horror of many of its followers. I just see the two being more a like than different.

Regarding made up stories, to an extent sure. But don't we have proof Jesus existed? As in the Shroud of Turin? I think though that may have been contested. I believe there is a new Buddha every so often as well and that is quite real to them and not a made up story, although I believe you could argue that the mythos behind it could be made up.

I do see your point and I personally have nothing against science. I just chose to see it differently. Then again I don't see anything wrong with your view point either. I find it interesting that a lot of scientists also belonged to secret occult societies as well. Ben Franklin and the Hellfire Club. You have Telsa and Thomas Edison in the Ultra Plus Plus society. Seems to me these men thought there was something to it. But it may have been completely separate from science.

Thanks for weighing in. All viewpoints have something to be learned from them in my opinion.

[ponyboysunset]

An example of parapsychologists trying to create the paranormal. This to me is a lot like ritual. Repeating the same steps hoping to record and gain knowledge on a certain hypothesis.
https://www.strangerdimensions.com/2012/03/20/the-philip-experiment/

[tootsie_wootsy]

The ritualistic nature of science reminds me of religion. The way experiments are conducted would be a similar way I see it. As far as new information goes I believe the Catholic church has become quite progressive with the latest Pope much to the horror of many of its followers. I just see the two being more a like than different.

Regarding made up stories, to an extent sure. But don't we have proof Jesus existed? As in the Shroud of Turin? I think though that may have been contested. I believe there is a new Buddha every so often as well and that is quite real to them and not a made up story, although I believe you could argue that the mythos behind it could be made up.

I do see your point and I personally have nothing against science. I just chose to see it differently. Then again I don't see anything wrong with your view point either. I find it interesting that a lot of scientists also belonged to secret occult societies as well. Ben Franklin and the Hellfire Club. You have Telsa and Thomas Edison in the Ultra Plus Plus society. Seems to me these men thought there was something to it. But it may have been completely separate from science.

Thanks for weighing in. All viewpoints have something to be learned from them in my opinion.

Unfortunately , Science has become an atheistic "religion" of sorts as they do not even deal with much of what Einstein had to say (Time is an illusion, albeit a most persistent one, There is no such thing as matter, just energy at a lower vibration)..They do not do experiments in consiousness, and most scientists are not awarded grants or even blacklisted even they deal in consciousness, "paranormal" research..Check out scientist Dean Radin who does do paranormal research.. Science has a stake in promoting materialistic culture and the status quo.. the best site for Conciousness vs. Science is skeptico, i think..

[wr250]

All my wives and girlfriends love me.

you cant be warren jeffs, he's still in the slammer. i hope your not related to him ...

[albrecht]

you cant be warren jeffs, he's still in the slammer. i hope your not related to him ...

I was going to mention that Brother Stair guy who runs/ran a big radio ministry but I see another self-proclaimed prophet is in the slammer for sexual crimes:
"A self-styled prophet who raped a woman during a healing ritual was yesterday jailed for 20 years. Herbert Senda, 34, had denied the charges when he appeared before Harare regional magistrate Hosea Mujaya but was convicted after full trial because of overwhelming evidence."

http://nehandaradio.com/2018/04/05/prophet-jailed-20-years-for-rape/

As for "occult," many now use this term to mean "hidden," not necessarily evil, satanic, manipulative, etc. At least in theory one could have a system in which occult practices are used but whose goals are good. There could be rational, even "good," reasons to have certain levels of knowledge, initiation, or even secrecy. Depending on the goals, the society, the prevailing religion, etc. A counter argument is, of course, that secrecy by nature tends towards the "bad side," or at least ugly or embarrassing side? And it is far too easy for a secret society, knowledge, power-structure, or relationship to turn "ugly" or get corrupted.

Re: "science" but also in other fields there is a, somewhat, necessary hierarchy. Unless one is some kind of idiot savant or child prodigy is very hard to grasp certain concepts, processes, etc without first learning other things. Depending on the person/subject it might be able to do so but in many cases you need a foundation before you build the house. Even things like a simple definition of terms, knowledge of history, etc are often necessary to argument, or think, about a certain subject. In science or "pure math" likewise there are definitions, fundamentals, and such that need to be learned before the more esoteric and complex things. At least for most people. There are genuine geniuses and sometimes even the most unlikely people. But for many things there are steps in knowledge and building-blocks etc.

[Evil Twin Of Zen]

umm... the Sun was paranormal at one time...

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[Evil Twin Of Zen]

....

Re: "science" but also in other fields there is a, somewhat, necessary hierarchy. Unless one is some kind of idiot savant or child prodigy is very hard to grasp certain concepts, processes, etc without first learning other things. Depending on the person/subject it might be able to do so but in many cases you need a foundation before you build the house. Even things like a simple definition of terms, knowledge of history, etc are often necessary to argument, or think, about a certain subject. In science or "pure math" likewise there are definitions, fundamentals, and such that need to be learned before the more esoteric and complex things. At least for most people. There are genuine geniuses and sometimes even the most unlikely people. But for many things there are steps in knowledge and building-blocks etc.

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[Aquarius]

actually we live in 4 dimensions our senses can detect. possibly more; i just looked at some science article on that this morning. ill try and find it.
/*edit*/
https://phys.org/news/2014-12-universe-dimensions.html

Thanks, wr250, that is a very interesting article!

And this is an interesting thread! What am I going to do, I barely have time for the threads I'm on and now this? 

This may be oversimplifying, but to me science and its search for evidence to prove or disprove any given theory is mostly limited by a three- or possibly four-dimensional understanding of our world. There is so much more going on that we just don't have any capability to understand at this point in our evolution, and so many things that happen that are not easily explainable by our current scientific knowledge. In a very broad sense, the intentions underlying both faith and science seem to me to be the same, an attempt by us human beings to understand on the deepest most profound levels how our universe works, and who and what we really are.

Science cannot explain our consciousness. Faith, other than asserting that God made the physical world can't explain the ongoing questions every new scientific discovery presences for future research. So I think they are in some way different methodologies on a continuum, both seeking to know ourselves and our world more deeply.

I hope this makes sense, not sure I'm expressing myself well here.

In any case, I'm delighted to see this thread and will pop in when I can.

Thanks for starting it, PBS!

[albrecht]

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I don't get some of these memes, so unsure if this was criticism, a joke; something supporting my comment or poking fun of it. I like words, easier for me to understand- but regardless, that hat couldn't have been made without some hydrocarbon cracking and that type tends to fit my head, if a Big Ag, some sports team, or even some beer or whatever company gives them to me for free- all the better....and wearing for utility, fishing, etc not for fashion. Not gonna buy. Though. Don't get buying to advertise someone else's company. 

[Evil Twin Of Zen]

Thanks, wr250, that is a very interesting article!

And this is an interesting thread! What am I going to do, I barely have time for the threads I'm on and now this? 

This may be oversimplifying, but to me science and its search for evidence to prove or disprove any given theory is mostly limited by a three- or possibly four-dimensional understanding of our world. There is so much more going on that we just don't have any capability to understand at this point in our evolution, and so many things that happen that are not easily explainable by our current scientific knowledge. In a very broad sense, the intentions underlying both faith and science seem to me to be the same, an attempt by us human beings to understand on the deepest most profound levels how our universe works, and who and what we really are.

Science cannot explain our consciousness. Faith, other than asserting that God made the physical world can't explain the ongoing questions every new scientific discovery presences for future research. So I think they are in some way different methodologies on a continuum, both seeking to know ourselves and our world more deeply.

I hope this makes sense, not sure I'm expressing myself well here.

In any case, I'm delighted to see this thread and will pop in when I can.

Thanks for starting it, PBS!

i really enjoy observing the clouds in the sky. clear skies do not interest me at all. i can identify and tell anyone that cares to listen, everything about the clouds i'm looking at in the sky.
i can't express to those same sad few listening to me.... in words.... what i see

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did you know that two individuals looking at the same rainbow, do not see the same rainbow? even more interesting is that each of those individuals two eyes do not see the same rainbow. it takes science to find out about and understand such things.
even so.... it certainly makes a rainbow even more amazing. it takes something else for that to be understood.

In a very broad sense, the intentions underlying both faith and science seem to me to be the same, an attempt by us human beings to understand on the deepest most profound levels how our universe works, and who and what we really are.

our species today... manipulate forces that secret teachings dreamed of.... those same teachings also held an understanding and warnings of handling such forces... they understood what a raging storm our species can be...

ummm.... so.... yes?

[Evil Twin Of Zen]

I don't get some of these memes, so unsure if this was criticism, a joke; something supporting my comment or poking fun of it. I like words, easier for me to understand- but regardless, that hat couldn't have been made without some hydrocarbon cracking and that type tends to fit my head, if a Big Ag, some sports team, or even some beer or whatever company gives them to me for free- all the better....and wearing for utility, fishing, etc not for fashion. Not gonna buy. Though. Don't get buying to advertise someone else's company. 

Re: "science" but also in other fields there is a, somewhat, necessary hierarchy. Unless one is some kind of idiot savant or child prodigy is very hard to grasp certain concepts, processes, etc without first learning other things. Depending on the person/subject it might be able to do so but in many cases you need a foundation before you build the house. Even things like a simple definition of terms, knowledge of history, etc are often necessary to argument, or think, about a certain subject. In science or "pure math" likewise there are definitions, fundamentals, and such that need to be learned before the more esoteric and complex things. At least for most people. There are genuine geniuses and sometimes even the most unlikely people. But for many things there are steps in knowledge and building-blocks etc.

it was a quick attempt to express that not only are you correct, but that is exactly what i have always done to learn something of interest to me. those things of interest do included science, the paranormal, and the occult. the key to the kingdom was my first library card in the third grade. my key to the heavens is being accessed with the same tool with which i type this post. i also have the benefit of having traveled much of the planet, lived in other cultures, and immersed in seeing other perspectives from getting to know people in those places.

the images posted usually make more sense to the poster. i'm never disappointed if that is true.

as for the hats... free is just fine. here in Missouri i think they are considered a cheap toupee.

anyway, i have been told that i'm kind of weird to talk to.... so there's that..