I am from 2036 - John Titor

[kingart]

Posted by Ernie Vega on 02-15-2001 12:42 PM

Question

Hi John: Is this what I think it is?

ARTIFICIAL MICROSINGULARITY = LOCALIZED KERR FIELD Through trial and error, and although they are quite heavy, hot and capable of putting out a great deal of energy (300 -- 500 megawatts), it's discovered that these microsingularities can be electrified and captured. It is also interesting to note at this point that electrified singularities also have two event horizons. By spinning these various microsingularities, a localized Kerr field is created.

It looks like a prediction. Is it.

Best regards, Ernie

Posted by Blonnie Dowden on 02-15-2001 01:04 PM

i would first like to state that i for one have never said you're an idiot -- i said you are aggravating. which is not really a personal problem w/yourself it is just how i perceive you to be. an adjective -- not a noun.

this sentence bothers me: "Although I do understand the reasons for asking, I won't gain from any communication with you by spouting physics formulas and pop culture predictions."

so that's what this is all about? you come here & want us to "help" you by asking questions.. so you can figure out how -we- percieve things & why we think the way we do but you do not recipricate the efforts. you only discuss things that you care about or that -you- think are important or that -you- think you will "gain" something from. seems rather -one-sided- to me.

you say: "The experiences, opinions and reasons you do things are just as valid as mine and just as different. I hope to return home with a better understanding of why you think and believe the way you do. "

so you return home w/a better understanding while we're left here w/the same questions we had before? it doesn't seem very beneficial to -us-..just to -you- (atleast from your statements).

-blonnie-

Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-15-2001 04:13 PM

If all the idealists who have traveled the path of confronting sceptics, were laid end to end … ?they'd be better off that way?

Where are we in the universe BTW, irrespective of our relation to surrounding physical masses.

The galaxy, and us with it, is traveling at ~ 390 km/sec. The Local Group, superclusters … and on out… how fast are they traveling? With respect to what? Last time I looked at the moon there were no strings attached either. It just sort of sits out there and whirs around, kinda like we do… or at least as I do. Pretty trick, if'n anyone's asking.

John -- Ever have any oldsters (60-80 year olds) come up to you and mention past correspondences?

Take Care All!

Posted by John Titor on 02-15-2001 05:06 PM

The following are personal rules I try to keep(unless of course they conflict with my secret agenda). I look forward to discussing any discrepancies you may find.

PERSONAL RULES FOR TEMPORAL DISCLOSURE:

(1). I will not disclose any information that will cause someone to personally gain by its knowledge.

(2). I will not disclose any detailed information that would allow someone to avoid death by probability.

(3). I will not disclose any information that may compromise any future actions by individual people or threaten their family and well-being.

BLONNIE: Thank you for your persistence and patience. It would appear some of my more sarcastic comments are directed at you. They are not and I apologize.

((so i am asking questions that can NOT be changed. someone can not change the fact that "Girly G. Hottie" is the next big name in showbusiness))

Rule 3 -- Your future is not unchangeable? Why couldn't harm may come to a person if I define them as someone who will do something in the future? However, in this case, I just don't know. I am not familiar with pop culture in 2001.

(("keep an eye out for so-and-so..they will rise to fame." or something like that. we couldn't -change- that..))

I find this an interesting point you've made again. Why do you feel that would be unchangeable?

CRAIG:

((Are you being obtuse about Bonnie's inquiries for more personal reasons? Her logic is pretty sound, and you're avoiding discussing some of the things that people naturally find curious about other cultures…))

I very much want to discuss our cultures but please help me understand how you won't be able to change something I tell you happened on my worldine.

((What kind of music is popular, what kind of recreation is enjoyable, what holidays are important…))

I'm not sure if you wanted to discuss these or not. If yes, I will be happy to do that.

((Do you feel some pleasure in breathing clean air and not having to check a geiger counter every few miles?))

Yes I do. However there is a fear about being here that I can only define as uncertainty. When I walk around in 2001, the air smells clean but I wonder if it really is. In 2036, there is no gray. The air is either clean or it will kill you. That feeling is very overwhelming when I eat here.

((Are there people in this time period who are hip (aware) of Time Travelers and who accept you as one?))

I have a very few precious relationships with people online who accept me as real or crazy and don't ask any questions. Much of my email flows through them. My parents are the only ones that have access to everything I could use to prove who I am.

((I would imagine there are folk in our time, who travel in different circles (out of the mainstream), who have some money and/or some power, and who know things that the rest of us do not. Are you, or others, in touch with people like that? How ARE you financing things?))

I have taken very clever and reliable measures to go undetected. Yes, there are probably people like that but I am not in active conversation with them. My expenses are not that large. I spend a great deal of time now archiving.

JEFFERY:

((I spotted few typing errors in Johns comments so I will assume that he has had an average education by our standards))

You must be energized and anxious to improve your education system then. Please tell me what you plan to do.

((1. Name the immediate political succeosor's to George Bush and Tony Blair.)) -- RULE 3

((2. Name any human being/animal/invention which became famous from obscurity prior to today (This is really easy, just name anyone who shot to fame for anything -- provided they are completely unknown now, and that it happens soon).) -- RULE 2, RULE 3

((3. Name any near future shock event that makes history -- political assasinations, inventions, marriages etc, same rules -- it should happen soon with nobody having a clue it was about to happen (exept maybe time-travellers).)

You mean other than the mad cow pandemic, the breakthroughs in high-energy physics and the unknown functions of the 5100? I realize I've only been on this board for a few weeks but I assume you've read the other postings I've made about these issues months ago in order to be so definitive.

((4. If you are older than 36 then there should be 2 of you here right now. You would both possess the same basic fingerprints and DNA. If you really want to prove your case then meet up with your younger self and get some police evidence.))

I am with my younger self. I don't have a case to prove and I wonder how many needles I would be on the receiving end for that one. With your superior education, I assume you already figured out that pretty soon someone might try that with a clone. Be careful what you take for definitive proof.

ANGEL:

If he had a time traveler line open would you call in?

((How long will you be here in 2001? When are you going back?))

My first opportunity to go home is this spring.

((What all are you taking back with you?))

A lot of hard drives filled with books, archived web sites, pictures and audio files. I'm also taking back family items that were lost in the war.

((Is propane still around in the future?))

Yes but not very much of it comes from natural gas. Hydrogen is converted into propane because it's easier to handle.

ROY:

((I would hope that the paradise I live in would somehow be spared (the Hawaiian Islands) but I suspect it would not be spared as a strategic target for obvious reasons))

My parents went to Hawaii on their Honeymoon. My dad told me a quick story about going to a fast food store and paying 6 or 7 dollars for a hamburger. I got an image in my head of a huge tanker filled with frozen hamburgers headed into the Pacific. Hawaii is very dependant on the mainland for food….isn't it?

Thank you for your kind words.

MIKE:

((Logically though the revelation of his TT ability still makes no sense, as he could easily question people of this time and get all sorts of info without revealing himself.))

Medium like the internet offer unique opportunities for communication. When I return, I will be debriefed on my opinions about how people in 2001 will accept time travelers.

((So that leads to the question why would he reveal himself if he has no stated aganda for doing so?))

I'm not sure I exactly said that.

((2. John came here to give somebody a "Back to the Future" type of push so as to invent the Time Machine. (My opinion on this is that no one needs to "invent" the TM because if is has been built in the future then it has always been invented, and we are merely waiting for someone to "discover" it. Just look back at most of the major advancements in science, almost every invention of science already existed, it only needed people to put it together. About the only things humans have invented deal in the arts. Music etc. This opinion comes from the "all times exist at once" theory.))

I find this one the most interesting. What do you think would happen if the United States, China or Russia suddenly developed a time machine and the rest of the world found out about it?

MY FRIEND JAVIER:

((…he does a maneuver that focuses the question back to the receiver, as to have him think it's been answered, and to shut him up. (Which in fact, he just avoided answering it, by doing what he did). He does this very often, and I'd just wanted to point that out before he did it again.))

Hmmm….I am forced to admit I must rethink what I know about Mobius loops.

ANDREW:

((1) Does the last name hubbard have any historical(is that the right term?) relevance?))

You may leave a message to yourself if you wish.

((2) What happens with Australia? does it play a major part in the war?))

I believed I wrote about Australia a bit earlier.

((3) What colloquial language is used in the future?))

Many people use the internet for communication and entertainment. I would say that affects our speech. We type very fast.

((4) What exactly happens to the water? does it get poisoned from radiation?))

Yes, radiation affected the water but that can always be distilled out. There are biological hazards that cannot. In addition, fresh water is hard to come by without talking to someone with a gun first.

((5) Have you actually met your parents? if so, what are their thoughts on you? ))

Yes. I am with them now. I would say it's a combination of fear and relief.

((6) Does time have ends?))

Yes. It is believed that all worldlines end. It is also thought that parallel worldlines that appear to be the same end at different times.

((7) Lets just say that people from the future are manipulating events now, such as preventing a tragedy, making it never occur. If it never occurred, no body would be sent back to stop it, which would mean that the event does take place. This would lead to the prevention of it happening again, and so on. What would happen in one of these situations?))

Based on my understanding of time, manipulation of your worldline by future time travelers would have no affect on their original or home worldline. If that is happening, it must be for a desired outcome or result on your worldline only. If UFOs are time travelers, they plan on reaping what they sew from you not their home.

RYAN

((John, if you really did travel through time you'd be dead. You have to take into account that the universe is expanding, the Earth, the solar system and the galaxy are all moving. If you truely did travel back through time, you'd materialize in 1970 where the Earth WILL be in 2036, which is the vacuum of space.))

This is an excellent point and one I thought I went over a bit earlier. There is a gravity lock system that compensates for the local gravity outside of the Tipler sinusoid. This is the reason the unit is only accurate to about 60 years.

RICK:

((Specifically, you stated my questions were "rather specific" and you'd be "love to discuss physics and happy to walk through the operation (I assume of the machine)". A few lines later you state (after me saying you should know a hell of a lot more about the machines you're operating) that you do know much about it, but you're not willing to share it with everyone. So… which is it? Are you willing to share information on the operation, a walkthrough of the machine, time travel… or AREN'T YOU?))

I suppose I am thinking about the physics and the engineering as separate subjects. I apologize for the confusion and I will be happy to answer your questions more directly.

((I asked legitimate questions. They were ignored, then later, when I asked others, they were skirted.))

Perhaps we could just start over again?

ANDREW:

((1) What role does Australia play in the war? You stated elsewhere that they repulse a Chinese invasion -- Does this mean Australian government side with your enemy? (As I think I recall you stating that they allied with your side + Russia… Could be wrong though.))

There were deep divisions in Australia also. I would associate it more with a powder keg than a civil war.

((2) Does intercontinental transportation still exist? If so, have you visited other countries?))

Yes, but the market is much smaller. No, I have not been overseas.

Page 12 on coming…

[kingart]

Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-15-2001 07:53 PM

Wink

John,

What state do you live in now in 2001?

Is John Titor your real name?

What do you look like? Post a picture of your self.

What is your secret agenda?

Is this dialogue between people in these posts part of your secret agenda?

Does your younger self realize what you are?

Are you married?

What rank were you in the Army?

Where did you go to BCT?

What company were you with, and what year did you graduate from BCT?

You have any fears? If so, what are they?

What are the rules for fraternizing with people who aren't from your time; do you make friends easily here in 2001?

What would the DOD do to you if they found you out?

What would you do if someone attempted to investigate you? Hundreds of people go through these forums a day I'm sure. Some of which can be government. Aren't you at all worried that it's only a matter of time before you are found out?

And you said; "I very much want to discuss our cultures but please help me understand how you won't be able to change something I tell you happened on my worldine."

Can you elaborate further on the matter?

I appreciate you answering these questions for me John, and thank you for calling me your friend .

-Javier C.

HJYABJ 100

Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-16-2001 08:00 AM

John,

I want you to understand something -- since you're using our discussions to make a determination of our thinking for when you go back. Understand that I don't think you're a jerk, but I believe you to be a "false time traveler" at this point. HOWEVER, I will say that you took the time to post some information that DOES answer some of my questions. Your disertation on physics (at least in a small way) confirms a few things that I think are relatively accurate.

Are the pictures (at the URL I posted a couple days ago) YOUR pictures of your time machine? (http://pub2.ezboard.com/fmagisystemstimelordsanonymus.showMessage?topicID=53.topic)

I'm going to help John answer a question that someone else asked. "What would the DOD do to you if they found you out?"

John would be grabbed by government federal agents and held incognito until a determination could be made based on national security. He certainly would be at risk of his life in "all probability" because he IS (will be/was -- put in any decriptors based on tense you wish) a threat to national security in "our time".

Here is why. John claims to come from a different time, our future time actually. Even though it is perhaps a different time thread, or time line, he could affect the outcome of our own future either through active participation or negligent participation. In other words, Johns actions could conceivable make a difference what happens. This is the main reason he is following some very specific "non interference" doctrine.

The very fact that John has made himself "visible" to the users here makes him a target. Believe it or not -- *I* work for the government. I work in an area that, while my particular job has nothing to do with this, am extremely interested in his statements. Yes -- we in the government DO watch for things like this. However, rest assured, if I went to the security office and said "I have access to a time traveler" I'd get laughed at. I'd have to get in touch with the "right people" to "report" the incident, and even then the skeptics would over rule the "believers".

What this means is, even though John could be consider a national security threat, he certainly is safer than even me, who works daily in government facilities.

Now that I have admitted my "government participation" let me tell you MY motive. Time travel. Afew days ago, someone sent me a copy of a time travel ad. I was intrigued by this. The ad, mysteriously appeared on Art Bells site last night. (Go there and look at it -- you will see precisely what I saw). I have drafted a letter indicating I'm interested. Yes, I have my own weapons (and a family, grandkids and kids ) but… if I had a chance to go back in time, I would take it. Assuming I could get back. haha.

My problem is that I would "interact" I believe. I would find the idea of interaction almost irresistable, which I would assume is one of the things psychologists would have a problem with time travelers in any case.

The US government… Russian or any other, would be in the same boat. They would, if they could believe it, GRAB and hold time travelers -- checking the veracity of their stories and preventing them from having any interaction with anyone.

Sound about right John?

I have a distinct feeling that I want to "believe" that John is truly a time traveler. The reason is simple and probably selfish. I have always said I want to live to see the ripe old age of 200. I MIGHT make it to 150 given todays medical advancements. If so, I have around 107 years to go. I can't wait to see what the future holds.

I want to LIVE time though, I don't want to go to the future and not be able to get back to my family and friends. I want to see that something so fantastic and so outlandish that it is science fiction right now, come true.

Those are MY motives for being here, chatting about this.

Granted, there are deeper, more scientific discussions on other boards and elsewhere in the scientific community, but they are "deeper" than I wish to delve. John has given me at least that tiny hope that somewhere out there, on some time line, someone will indeed do what we've been believing all along.

So -- John, my comments about being fraudulent -- please don't take them seriously and please do not think I have anything against you personally, nor wish to discredit you. I only want the honest truth.

If you tomorrow, said, Rick, this was an experiment in psychology, writing, or fantasy -- whatever, I would not be surprised. If I had a way to prove you were truly a time traveler -- that secret would be safe with me (as would anything else you told me). See, I believe in America, and I believe in Freedom.

I believe if you're really what you say you are -- then you're a hope for the future. Even if there is 'civil war' or nuclear war -- people like myself are already prepared for those things.

Whatever comes of this… best of luck in either your studies in psychology, time travel or writing. I'll be listening in (and commenting) from time to time.

Rick

[kingart]

Posted by Ernie Vega on 02-16-2001 10:26 AM

Thumbs up

Hi Rick, John, all:

I also found John's post regading the specifics to be beyond much contention. My scale is tipping toward belief.

I'll say this much. The descriptions John provided are much more convincing than his ability to write a given equation. I think I understand why Rick was impressed as I know a bit more about Rick today than I did 2 days ago I mean his technical background.

Here is my opinion.

John thus far has demontrated the following:

Ability to discuss physics that seems to rise (eventually) to the level of the question posed.

High degree of intelligence.

Has not wavered in his ethical assertions regarding (verifyable) disclosure of future events.

No interest in making money for this (so far)

Continuity of statements (not 100%, but he's human)

Accurate cultural behaviour for a person from the world he claims to come from.

Has "I believe" made more than 1 verifyable prediction. (I think) correct me if I misunderstood his post.

Patience

A degree of loyalty to his country, and for democracy not found every day. He has read the Constitution and understood it. IMHO

Hinted that he may have had something to do with recent events that did not come to pass.

An accurate depiction of the climate that would escalate to the wars and events he describes.

Made statements that contradict many other Time Traveller's Statements.

Has attempted to answer most of what is asked of him.

The ability to accurately relate a story as if he had been there.

A great deal of self control when "questioned". (for you Rick

In general has been a very good thread host.

None of this proves he's a time traveller, but it does prove to me that I should continue to read the posts, and ask further question.

As someone recently mentioned a preponderance of circumstantial evidence builds credibility.

I have a question for John:

John, what would it take to get you to stick around after spring and leave during the next window of opportunity?

I fear that another month or 2 may not be enough time to get as much said and discussed as I would like to have.

Regarding the photos. I have asked 6 friends that have been in the military and "whatever" the device is in the photo looks very authentic. The manual also is what you would expect from the military. The revisions on the cover page look normal for such a manual. Maybe Rick can take a close look at the photos. Has anyone done any imaging on the photos to make the individual controls on the "machine" more visible.

In your "world time" have things like "Saquatch" , "Loch Ness monster", and other reported unusual animals been seen, or captured or explained away.

Is remote viewing used to gather military intelligence?

Are psychics still common? are they used by the government?

Is there a Police Dept as we know it. Have any of your top leaders or politicians been jailed or impeached?

John, any chance of getting a better set of photos with more of the manual?.

John please respond to my question as to "the prediction" did I jump the Gun? (get ahead of myself).

One final question? Is there a Global Superpower state and what nation is it.

Best regards, Ernie

Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-16-2001 10:48 AM

I think I understand. I guess you are held accountable, in some way, for changes that occur in your time period. You would know, and I guess no one else has to. Let me see if I get this. You tell me about a new cultural fad -- for instance, let's say Czech Dance Wear, becomes chic. I keep my eye on trends, and invest, in a way that benefits me, at the exclusion of someone else. OR I open a shop that begins the trend and then trend burns out sooner than it otherwise would. Then you, on your time-line, notice, when you get back, that the weekly dance at the local Youth Hall is no longer centered around Czech Bouncing, for the summer of '36. Instead, for some quirky reason, Cowboy Line Dancing appeals to everyone for a few weeks or months during this period. Otherwise everything else remains relatively unchanged.

Please answer this question to the best of your ability to assist us. I'm a big believer in grassroots resourcefulness, and its power in creating discerning situations that test people's willingness and ability to make their own way.

It seems to me that with the cities under such stresses, people would flock in large numbers to remote areas like Winnipeg (sorry guys) or some other region with plenty of clean water, air and soil. Why is this such a nelected fix? I would also imagine that the network of Intentional Communities (communes?) that took root over the years, would provide infrastructural support to a nation needing to find its "FOXFIRE" roots.

If I was transposed to the 1920's or 30's, you would have a hard time keeping me off the streets, out of public places, shops, concert halls, etc. just trying to take it all in. Ditto with just about any other time and place.

Which reminds me of an old story about the TT who saw a sign outside a restaurant that said "Breakfast served any time". He eventually settled on eggs benedict during the Renaissance.

Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-16-2001 11:35 AM

It is interesting to note that the photos posted on that other site were posted by an "anonomyous time traveler" some time back. It fits the exact description John has give us of his machine. Therefore, based on his discription alone, I would say he is the one that posted the pictures. If he didn't post them, then he is using them for the basis of his story.

Regardless of the two supositions above, the device appears to be "authentic" to me. I have some experts looking at the manual and the pictures as well -- for obvious reasons, I won't tell you who because they aren't aware of this discussion and I don't intend to tell them about it.

I am extremely familiar with military spec equipment in many forms, more specifically communications systems of various types. I have never seen this particular item (in my time… ) nor anything vaguely resembling it. HOWEVER, it does have the look and feel of a piece of gear produced by a large corporation for the military.

John -- in looking closely at this device, I see there is a hand control unit -- with some sort of screen on it. I assume this is the computer interface through which the device is programmed (or time settings are made). Is that an accurate assumption? What does the display show you (for instance, does it simply show things like time/date calculations, or radiation [probably wrong word] of the fields from the device?)

Also, there are 16 apparent buttons. I have to assume further that these are multifunction keys (that is you press one for an alt/control function and other buttons have names or labels and perhaps even numerical meanings). Is that also accurate?

thanks

Posted by Doug Beauchamp on 02-16-2001 05:38 PM

At the very begginning of this thread, I was very skeptical. Who wouldn't be on a topic like this? However, I find myself believing it even more with each page. What I find strange is why so many people don't believe. I think we've established that a majority of us do believe time travel a possibility. Most of us also believe that the human race does indeed learn how to travel to time sometime in the future. If we believe this, then why do we find it so hard to believe that there are people from the future among us? If John is not a time traveler, then he's a **** good lier. There are minor flaws in his stories, but I think there are more strengths than flaws. Maybe I just believe his story because I want to (selective belief).

As for the issue of security, I think Rick covered it all. I don't think the government would be as open-minded to this topic as some of us. Unless John proved he was a time traveler, I don't think anyone will be using his IP to track him. Which is a reason I don't think John can be proving to us that he is indeed a TT. (Maybe that's one of the lessons in TT training.) Unless there is a branch of the FBI similar to the X-Files, I doubt anyone will be knocking on Johns door anytime soon.

Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-16-2001 08:48 PM

So John, when do you plan on answering my questions?

Is there a problem in answering?

Please let me know…. I await you.

-Javier C. Sysop: We do not provide links to other boards, Sorry. Peace, Mary [Edited by Mary Rowland on 02-16-2001 at 09:19 PM]

Posted by Tim Utterback on 02-16-2001 10:17 PM

Wink

Hey John. If you can't dazzle them with brilliance. Then baffle them with BS!!!

Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-17-2001 12:10 AM

Man, that's the second time someones edited out my posts. But that's not important, what is, is your answers John.

I'm still waiting. So far it's been 48 hours. What's wrong? Are you unable to answer?

[kingart]

Posted by Roy Meserve on 02-17-2001 11:13 AM

Hello,

Thanks for your reply. Yes, unfortunately Hawai'i is quite tied to the fate of the mainland US in major ways. Efforts at some amicable sovereignty are halting or stillborn. Just wanted to recommend a book I think might tell you volumes about present macro socio-economic conditions that lay the foundation for the evolving political divisions you state lead to a civil war in the US in the near future. The book is "When Corporations Rule the World" by John C. Korten. While certainly not the only important work or view of this present paradigm, behind the 'sturm und drang' of partisan noise and distraction, this well-written and researched book by a dedicated veteran of more than 30 years abroad in var- ious aid and developmental programs aimed at Third world areas, squarely focuses on the escalating comglomeration of power and money increasingly in the hands of the few and the resulting loss of control over individual and community autonomy. Now, in the twilight of the 21st century, this locus of capital, political influence and media control is taking on a life of its own, out of the control of even those at the top of the command heirarchy, with concommitant social decline, rampant environmental degradation, and of course the threat of war as a means both of deflection of attention on the real problem, and further dividing and conquering to consolidate ever more power. No black hats and white hats, per se, but more the result of unthinking accep- tance of a certain economic model at the root. This is why I feel there is a kind of inevitability to some sort of wrenching change, whether or not it follows 'your' probable outcome. Another older book by a similar 'dissoc- iated' entity that might interest you is "The Nature of Per- sonal Reality" by Jane Roberts (circa 1979-80). From a ghost no less! Both can be found at the public library, but are worth perusal. Submitted humbly in the spirit of apocalypse or (Greek)- 'unveiling'….

regards,

Roy

Posted by Andrew Hubbard on 02-17-2001 08:40 PM

1) would you be able to internationally travel by: travelling to the year 2001, fly a plane to the desired destination, and then go to the future from there?

2)If each world line is seperate from the others, then wouldn't the consequences of your actions now have no effect on your original worldline? If this is the case, why won't you tell us things that will give us knowledge or let us avoid death? My only geuss is that you are not a time traveller, and don't want to say anything that could make a gullable person do something stupid.

3) how can I leave a message for myself in the future if the things i do in this worldline do not effect the others?

Posted by Michael E. Hendrickson on 02-18-2001 08:03 AM

The falsity of your claims is revealed in your predicted scenario for our country in the years 2004-2012,i.e., a virtual collapse of our constitutional system into a waring divide between the cities and the countrysides, with a farmer general leading the latter to victory in 2012, presumably, after a horrendous, internecine struggle. I believe in fact this describes a plot in one or more science fiction novels written in the past 50 years. This scenario could plausibly describe events which, perhaps, might occur 100 years from now, or even much further in the future, but most certainly not commencing a mere three years from now. A breakdown of this magnitude would've had to have been preceded by many more fracturing events other than Ruby Ridge, Waco,the Oaklahoma bombing,etc., over a much longer period of time in order to culminate in your predicted scenario. Given what we know about our society today with its very stable system of government(however else you may wish to describe it), your prediction of its pending disintegration, beginning in three short years, is utterly improbable, if not impossible. Hmm., I'm, trying to think, was it Asimov or Kurt Vonnegut Jr. who originally authored this scenario? MH P.S. The idea of a farmer general leaving his fields to lead his country's troops to victory is an old one going back, at least, to Roman times. Lucius Quintus Cincinnatus, I believe, was the gentleman's name, from the 5th Century B.C. Roman Republic. [Edited by Michael E. Hendrickson on 02-18-2001 at 08:28 AM]

Posted by Ernie Vega on 02-18-2001 11:06 AM

The recent film "Gladiator" featured Maximus a farmer general who defeated a "fictionalized" Commodus.

I guess if you asked Joseph Campbell there are only a few stories and all literature is the re-telling of the same few stories in different settings.

Boy saves girl Boy saves the nation Girl dies boy avenges Boy gets girl usually another boy loses girl. Underdog defeats the champ. David and Goliath, farmer general Good boy goes bad bad boy goes good and a few more. there are a few that's all then we just enhance the content to fit our cultural needs.

Peace

Posted by Randy Empey on 02-18-2001 11:36 AM

Mr. Vega and Mr. Hendrickson:

The wonderful ability for the human mind to group things by simularities, generalize, and vaguely remember stories heard in the past exists.

But it is not conclusive proof of the falsity of anybodies claims.

I, as an attempted-authorer (pretty simular to being an attempted-murderer), have ran into the 'universal hero myth' dillema face to face, in mental combat to the death . . . and have yet to arrise victorious . . . but it does not mean I have no good stories to tell, nor that they are unoriginal. And it certainly doesn't mean that any story I may come up with is most definetly not true . . .

I am fairly certain that proving anything is impossible. (By this I mean proving ABSOLUTELY . . . within certain frameworks, like mathematics, things can be proven . . . but in general? I think not. In what we call 'reality'? I also think not. Life would be too simple.)

If this is true, and I think it is, it also follows that it is impossilbe to disprove anything -- although the two are often different problems.

So the ongoing 'discussion' about the veracity of this TT's claims is largely in vain. Good works may yet come from it, but I am sure there are better ways to spend this thread. John has already suggested this, it seems to me, and I believe it is everybody's best interest to recognize that we have never been in the realm of absolutes and that the main goal here is the intelligent exchange of ideas, observations, insights and 'feelings'.

Just because a plot appears often in the worlds portrayed in science fiction doesn't preclude them from being what you seem to consider science fact.

Spacecraft are a prime example of this.

Timecraft ARE ALSO!

The mind is the ultimate vessel for any kind of exploration . . . lets please direct our miranderings a little more effectively even on this micro level, . . . if only to please my aesthetic sense!

I'm sure we will all be a lot happier and the fruits will then be better.

Posted by Ernie Vega on 02-18-2001 02:56 PM

Cool

Hi all: Randy, although I remain to be convinced as to the nature of John or his story. I have never said he was a fake or a fraud, or a liar, actually, I expressed frustration at the seemingly all important "is he or isn't he" debate.

I propose that "what John is" is irrelevant to this conversation. What is relevant is the ideas, and very good technical information being discussed here. I can tell you that I'm sure that some of the posters know more about time travel and it's why's and why nots, than they did prior to coming here.

The real interesting conversation has been about the culture he describes, and the way they approach life.

My comment regarding story lines is accurate. It does not however, detract from any literary work. It also had no connection to John Titor, I was actually disagreeing with the previous poster that stated that the Farmer General metaphor somehow was indicative of deception on Johns part, or a weak link in his story. The Farmer General is nothing new. History is replete with Farmer Generals.

I was pointing out to him the "preponderance" of similarity that exists in the area of "plot development". As an author you must have at times asked yourself if the scene you were creating did not sound too much like "this", or "that".

Anyway, I just wanted to clarify the point.

Oh one more thing.

You say The mind is the ultimate vessel for any kind of exploration . . . lets please direct our miranderings a little more effectively even on this micro level, . . . if only to please my aesthetic sense!

Please excuse me if I misuderstood but neither I nor anyone else here is going direct their meanderings in any direction to please "your" sense of Aesthetics. As soon as you become a moderator here you can dictate whatever you want. Remember that whatever you post will most likely get a response.

By the way "effective meandering" is a poor choice of metaphor, you see it's a borderline oximoron.

Peace [Edited by Ernie Vega on 02-18-2001 at 03:24 PM]

Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-18-2001 11:04 PM

Smile

OK John, I know your playing this Machiavelli role again, of going silent and hiding. But just wanted to let you know, that when you do return, answer my questions first. I asked first. So don't avoid answering my questions. Got that ?

-Javier C.

[kingart]

Posted by Lola Montez on 02-19-2001 12:23 AM

Hello, To John Titor: I have found this thread very interesting. How far from what size city is it the safest to be? You suggest bicycle. What about horseback? Should we be stockpiling guns? What kind of people will be the ones least trustworthy? Is the conflict racial in any way? Does the civil war start in such a way that with this foreknowledge those willing will have time to remove themselves to safer locations. Will you readily be able to identify the enemy. Does living near a river with a distillation unit take care of water problems? How are the five people within the 100 miles contacted? Do communications stay intact. I have 86 acres on a river in Central California about 125 miles north of LA. I have geese, turkeys, horses, chickens, milk cows, good pasture, a well run by electricity, and a garden. I also have two teenage sons who are gun nuts. Plenty of rifles, semi-automatic and otherwise. Any comment on our chances or suggestions? My oldest son, 19, is joining the army for 3 years. Will he be asked to kill his countrymen? I look forward to hearing from you.

Posted by Emmett "Darby" Darbyshire on 02-19-2001 01:22 AM

John,

Sometime earlier you wrote that there are no paradoxes in time tavel. I have a question regarding a paradox that I can't seem to overcome. Maybe you can help.

People who posit theories of time travel generally write in terms of time travel in years. My problem deals with very short trips -- the kind that early experimenters would most likely attempt (to avoid divergence problems if nothing else).

In this experiment the traveller only goes 30 seconds into the past to appear in his lab. It seems that 30 seconds before his experiment was to begin he saw himself apppear in the lab. There would now be two travellers and two time machines. It doesn't appear that it ends that simply as the "second" time traveller says that he saw a duplicate self appear in the lab thirty seconds before he started the trip. It would appear that its a time loop and an infinite number of duplicates see a duplicate self appear in the lab thirty seconds prior to the start of the trip.

Your time machine weighs 500 lbs and an average man weighs about 180 lbs. So lets say that that the mass is about 700 lbs per traveller. What is the mass of the duplicates and where did the mass come from? What is the result of the duplicates arriving ~simultaneously at the ~same place and time? How long will it take for the loop to decay? Will it decay? Is it a loop? What happens if the experimenter, upon seeing his duplicate, decides not to continue the experiment?

Posted by Randy Empey on 02-19-2001 07:52 AM

Mr. Vega, I excuse you as you ask. Complete understanding between seperate entities in this world is likely an impossibility. I claim no such moderatorship -- I was just attempting to appeal to everybodies sense of 'proper actions during mutually-benificial social interactions' (I hate it when I can't find the right, single word to say what I want to say . . .) . . . attempting to phrase it in a way that hasn't already been said here . . . obviously, at least in your case, it back fired. I still feel its a good sentiment.

"Effective meandering" appealed to me for exact reason which seems to make you feel it was a poor metaphor. It has the meaning I intend, as I know the language.

------

John T:

Since you are stockpiling examples of written word from this time, whether to bring back to the future or for sources in your own written endeavours, I suggest you make this a two way street -- you take our words, so lets have some more of yours.

Do you remember any poetry or verse from after 2001 in your past?

Is there an active market on new books in your time, or has that infranstructure not rebuilt it self? Are most the books available old or new?

Out of curiosity, as a rough judge of character, have you read the works of J.R.R. Tolkien? And did you enjoy them.

Actually, this all boils down to the question the last few posters have been getting at -- R U THERE?

All --

Even if John never posts again, this thread would still seem to be useful . . . there is enough conflict here to make it good drama.

I think time-travel is possible . . . others among us think its impossible . . . there are other threads where battles in this war are fought . . . but this particular theatre is far from over.

[kingart]

Posted by John Titor on 02-19-2001 11:03 AM

CHAD: ((1. You have claimed several times that you will not participate in assisting anyone to get out of 'death by probability'. Yet any number of the things that you have said could have already caused an individual to do or not do something that will now result in them either dying, or escaping death an otherwise fated death.))

It would help if you could give an example. If you are referring to the conflict and war in your future, I'm not sure I'm specific enough to help any individuals avoid anything. Suggesting there is a war coming is a bit different than saying avoid Washington DC at 3:45 AM on March 12, 2015.

((There is no way for you to know if there is no future world leader reading this and believing.))

Are you sure about that? Besides, I think you can have just as much impact as any "future leader".

((2. You claim that you have no interest in proving to us that you are a time-traveller. To hear you take such a stance is laughable. Look at what a show you have put on here. Instead you tell us that you only wish us to make us aware of time-travel as a possiblity (see #1 again), or that you only wish to observe us and speak of cultural and religious issues, something interesting to a historian.))

I submit there is no way for me to prove anything on the internet, therefore it makes no sense to desire it. What exactly do you think I could do to prove it to anyone? I am confused by your term "the show". Do you feel my only goal here is to entertain?

((You came and posted on this site with one intention that was clear as of your first post: to make us believe that you are a time-traveller. You have continued this thread for that purpose alone, and I find everything you have done supports this.))

Again, I am unable to make you do anything nor would I want that.

((As far as wishing to speak of issues regarding our humanity, or culture, it is quite clear that this is not your intention (contrary to what you insist). If you truly wished to do this your first line would not have been, 'I am a time-traveller'. If you truly wished to do this you would not have continued this thread once you realized that line would not serve your claimed goals.))

I learn a great deal about your culture from the words you write (like right now). What do you think my goals are?

((The entirety of this thread has been: you developing your story.))

I'm not sure I understand this. How would "my story" differ it was "developed"?

((I find it very difficult to belive that a software tweak (hence 'software engineers', -software-) done to a 1975 machine could cause it to do this translation more effectively or more portably than something around even today.))

Ahhh…something we have in common. Yes, I felt that way too. However, my job was to go and get it and not debate why they wanted it. I am not a computer expert.

((I find it almost impossible to believe that a tweak done by a 'software engineer' in 1975 could provide for you something that you could find at no other place between now and 'your time', and certainly without having to make a stop-over in our time to get back that far.))

A great deal of the computer infrastructure you depend on is based on very old systems and code. One of the reasons I was sent to 1975 was because of the person I met there, not the technology.

((Furthermore, I find the notion that one of a limited number of time-machines would be used in this manner to be nothing short of nonsensical. There are more effective ways to accomplish what you claim in this regard.))

Perhaps you would share them with me. You might be right and I could make your suggestions when I return.

((4. I have, and continue to believe Dr. Hawking's view in regards to the possibility of time travel if indeed the model of time is what you have suggested, that all possibilities occur in different time-lines, in different universes is the way that time truly is. For this reason alone I cannot accept you. It is entirely logical, and I have seen no good case to counter it.))

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. If you believe in Multiple World Theory, Hawking was not the one who first thought of that. If you do, then I must be real if all possibilities exist. As I recall, Hawking felt that it was possible to build a machine but some sort of vacuum fluctuations would destroy it right before you tried to use it.

((You claim that you have no desire to prove your story to us, yet everything you have done from the moment you first posted here has flown in the face of that.))

I'm not sure that's true. In fact, I've tried to point out on at least two occasions that anything I do (at the request of someone else) to support my claims can be found someplace else on your worldline right now.

((What is more, you bring with you the claim that you will tell us no names, no locations, or any specifics as a result of your supposed ethics. If those were indeed the ethics you were committed to and reasoned with, you would not be here now.))

I am curious about this also. Do you think I should not interact with you for your safety or mine?

((I visit with a pink unicorn in the garden behind my house at night and it talks to me. I would show it to you but it only comes out when I am alone.))

For some reason, I believe you.

RYAN: ((Time travel may be possible, but if you were to time travel, you would NOT land on Earth. You would land in a vacuum of space. You have to take into account that the universe is expanding, the Earth, the solar system and the galaxy are all moving. If you truely did travel back through time, you'd materialize in 1970 where the Earth WILL be in 2036, which is NOT Earth.. it's space.))

Yes, this is a problem. It was solved by taking a "snapshot" of the local gravity around the unit before leaving a worldline and incorporating it into the sinusoid during travel. The short answer is, you "stick" to the earth but this is only a useful explanation to understand it and it's not practical. Since the computer system is using a virtual reference, the calculations become flawed. Thus:

1. Based on the accuracy and timing of the "snapshots" the distortion units are limited to how long they can travel before becoming unstable.

2. We must leave and arrive in areas we have prior or future knowledge of in order to avoid massive objects (buildings, water, etc…)

3. The unit has a fail-safe system during travel that drops out in case of a unit shutdown or radical departure in gravity readings.

((Answer this factoid, John, and I will believe you until the ends of the Earth.))

Again, you should not offer this to anyone for any reason.

RICK: ((If John wants a way to prove anything -- which from his previous posts he has stated he DOESN'T WANT TO DO -- then I am more than willing to look over his proofs. However -- just because I were to look something over gives no more meaning to the rest of you than it would if one of you looked his stuff over, believed it then told ME.))

Exactly!

MEL: ((How would someone that came here with no money all of the sudden have plenty of money now? You could have brought the lowest denomination coin of your time with a mint mark anywhere after 2001 and probably convinced almost all of us. At least some people. It would be hard to fake.))

The reason I don't have 2036 money is because it takes up weight, space and can be faked and I can't use it for anything. What type of expenses do you think a time traveler would have that I would need so much money for?

SIMON: ((1) Simply inscribe your knowledge of any large scale events (disasters, discoveries, etc etc) over the next six months (there should be at least one memorable example) into a text file.

(2) Encrypt said text file.

(3) Give text file to a custodian. I sure Art Bell would volunteer, he's very interested in time travel.

(4) In six months time give Art the encryption key and he can reveal what you said.))

The only problem is, now you have to trust the person who brings the information forward.

RANDY: I'm not sure you really wanted me to answer those questions. If you could be more specific I would enjoy the conversation. Do you believe that faith alone will get you to God? Do you believe in an organized force of evil that works against men's souls?

13 coming…

Posted by Randy Empey on 02-19-2001 01:00 PM

Thumbs up

John T --

I would like you to answer any of the questions which you feel you can answer. I would not ask were I not curious. You, of course, are allowed to censor yourself and direct the conversation by what you choose to respond to and say.

It may intrest you to read some of the other threads on this bbs, the ones about other topics, like religion . . . and post in them.

But I think I can provide a brief response to your questions to promote further conversation here.

I believe that faith AND good works will get one to God. There are other things, but they can arguably be included under the headings of 'faith' and 'good works'.

I believe there is an organized force of evil that works against God's plan for men's souls. Its all part of the plan.

Your next question may be "Why do you believe that?" . . .

My answer is two part:

1. I was born into a family where such beliefs run strong. It feels right to believe what my loved ones believe.

2. My studies since my childhood have done nothing but confirm that such beliefs are at least well founded, if not indicated by the way I understand that 'things' work in this reality. By this I allude to many different avenues of the pursuit of knowledge. Recently, the most convincing has been things I've learned in my study of physics, of all things . . .

Some scientist say science has made them athiests . . . I say science, as I understand it, has had the opposite effect on many others.

I like to think, and the more I think, the more I become convinced that my beliefs are accurate enough for my purposes.

But, they are beliefs, and I could not prove them to you.

Another reason why I am stubborn in some of these beliefs, the religious ones and other parts of my philosophy is because it feels right -- almost as if by intuition or subconscious communications from 'the other side'.

I don't think the possibility of TT disagrees in any way with any of the elements of my philosophy.

I think many reading this thread would like you to expound on the elements of your philosophy, John.

I vaguely remember you mentioned being religious . . . am I remembering straight? (I'll look over the past posts of course, but reiteration doesn't hurt.) How would you answer your own questions?

Could you talk a bit more on how the 'many worlds' view point introduced by the advent of the TT tech. developed in your society affects the religious views of both the masses and the thinkers?

I think that it works with the way I understand things -- Falling under the 'many flocks' arguement, if nothing else.

You mention gathering written material here . . . so I assume you do a lot of reading -- before this trip, in your spare time, did you read much fiction? If so, what genre? Any books from this century?

What brought you to this bbs in the first place?

And here is another character-o-meter question I'd like you to answer: Have you seen George Lucas's Star Wars Trilogy (bonus points for any of the prequels or sequels)?

Posted by Joe Norris on 02-19-2001 01:12 PM

Question

1: What happens to Bill Clinton between now and 2036

2: What happens to Bill Gates between now and 2036

I am sure these are both headline events that will be talked about for several years to come.

Posted by John Titor on 02-19-2001 01:14 PM

RANDY: ((I believe that faith AND good works will get one to God. There are other things, but they can arguably be included under the headings of 'faith' and 'good works'. I believe there is an organized force of evil that works against God's plan for men's souls. It's all part of the plan. Your next question may be "Why do you believe that?" ))

Please don't think me so cynical. I would never insult or degrade someone's religious views. My next questions would be "what about knowledge?" I am a firm believer that faith (and good works) is not enough to get to God. There is a mystery we must solve first.

((I vaguely remember you mentioned being religious . . . am I remembering straight? (I'll look over the past posts of course, but reiteration doesn't hurt.) How would you answer your own questions?))

Yes, I believe in organized evil. It would sure be easier to carry out an "evil" plan if no one beloved you existed. Just curious, can anyone tell me what "Satan" really means?

Had to answer those quickly. I have nothing but open-mindedness for religious conversation and I look forward to more. I'll get to the other questions soon.

Thanks.

[kingart]

Posted by Ernie Vega on 02-19-2001 02:45 PM

Wink

Hi John:

Best I could find is from the Hebrew Ha-Satan, or "the Adversary."

First, let's examine what the Bible reveals about the origin of Satan and the demons.

EZEKIEL 28:12 "Son of man, take up a lamentation for the king of Tyre, and say to him, 'Thus says the Lord GOD: "You were the seal of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. 13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone was your covering: The sardius, topaz, and diamond, beryl, onyx, and jasper, sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold. The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes was prepared for you on the day you were created. 14 You were the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; you were on the holy mountain of God; you walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones. 15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, till iniquity was found in you. 16 By the abundance of your trading [rekullatek] you became filled with violence within, and you sinned; therefore I cast you as a profane thing out of the mountain of God; and I destroyed you, O covering cherub, from the midst of the fiery stones. 17 Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; you corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor . . ." (NKJV) REVELATION 12:3 And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great, fiery red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on his heads. 4 His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. . . . (NKJV) LUKE 10:17 Then the seventy returned with joy, saying, "Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name." 18 And He said to them, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven." (NKJV) From the preceding Scriptures, we can learn several things about Satan and the fallen angels. In the beginning, this "anointed cherub" was created as a wise, beautiful, and powerful angel. He apparently was one of the two cherubs who cover the mercy seat (God's throne) with their wings (see Heb. 8:5; 9:5, 23-24; Exo. 25:20; 37:9; I Kin. 6:19-28; 8:6-7; I Chr. 28:18; II Chr.3:10-13; 5:7-8). However, because of pride in his beauty, this cherub's wisdom was corrupted.

Satan is symbolically called the "king of Tyre" (Eze. 28:12). The coastal city-state of Tyre was one of the world's greatest traders during Israel's monarch period. Isaiah calls Tyre "the bestower of crowns, whose merchants were princes, whose traders were the honored of the earth" (Isa. 23:.

Although the Scriptures don't define the trade Satan was engaged in, it clearly tells us that because of the abundance of his trade, he sinned. Possibly Satan implemented a system of competition rather than cooperation, which eventually filled him with violence, causing his iniquity.

The word rendered "trading" in the NKJV translation of Ezekiel 28:16 is a form of the Hebrew noun rekulla, which means "traffic" or "merchandise." This particular form of rekulla is only found five times, all in Ezekiel (Eze. 26:12; 27:20, 23; 28:16, 18).

However, rekulla is derived from the root word rakal. It's relevant to note that a closely-related derivative, rakil, means "slanderer." It's used in this context six times (Lev. 19:16; Jer. 6:28; 9:4; Eze. 22:9; Pro. 11:13; 20:19). The account of Satan in Ezekiel 28 could well involve aspects of both these meanings. In the New Testament, this fallen angel is often called the "devil," or the diabolos in the Greek (Matt. 4:1, 5, 8, 11; 13:39; 25:41; Luke 4:2, 3, 6, 13; 8:12; John 8:44; 13:2; Acts 10:38; 13:10; Eph. 4:27; 6:11; I Tim. 3:6, 7; II Tim. 2:26; Heb. 2:14; Jam. 4:27; I Pet. 5:8; I John 3:8, 10; Jude 9; Rev. 2:10; 12:9, 12; 20:2, 10). Not coincidentally, the literal meaning of diabolos and its variations is "slanderer."

It's possible that through his "slander" and "gossip," Satan turned one-third of the angelic host against God. We know that Satan tried this approach in the Garden of Eden, when he misrepresented God's motives to Eve (Gen. 3:1-5). The angelic forces loyal to God eventually had to cast this "anointed cherub," along with his allies, out of heaven. From that point forward he became known in Hebrew as Ha-Satan, or "the Adversary."

There is more e-mail me if anyone wants the rest

Peace

Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-19-2001 03:25 PM

Smile

I'm still waiting for you to respond to my questions TT_0. After all, I did put HJYABJ 100 at the end of my post.

-Javier C.

P.S. Now it's no longer an excuse of not being able to log on. We await your respond.

Posted by Simon Wiggins on 02-19-2001 03:32 PM

>>The only problem is, now you have to trust the person who brings the information forward.

Why if I had a glove sir !!! Of course you could trust Art to fess up if you were right!

You must be from a very dystopian future to be so cynical

Posted by Nikki Colwill on 02-19-2001 04:57 PM

I just gotta say this is some of the best reading entertainment I have had in a LONG time!!!

Posted by Pamela Moore on 02-19-2001 06:10 PM

Smile

Hi everybody. wow! this is a very interesting forum. for any body wanting to see what a IBM 5100 portable computer looks like they can see one here:

you will have to type it in I guess direct links are not allowed. ((http://mercury.sfsu.edu/~hl/c.IBM.5100.html)) I am hoping this shows up ok and does not offend the moderators. It is on the other board but I was not sure if the link to the other board was still on here.

Anyway it looks like a very interesting piece of machinery. It will give you a better idea on the machine John is talking about that he went back to 1975 to get. how big it is and what it looks like.

sincerely, pamela

Posted by Lola Montez on 02-19-2001 07:21 PM

To John,

I hope you will get to some of my previous questions, in the meantime I have more.

Why are orphans an issue? It seems war orphans would be pretty old by now.

What is your biggest or gravest environmental issue?

Does distillation remove radioactivity from water?

Do people still watch TV?

Are there any women on your travel team? What is the status of women in your time? (This may only be able to be answered by a woman)Do they hold office? Work outside the home? Get equal pay? Are they safe on the streets at night? What do women wear for the most part?

Are the Amish alive and well?

What is the birth rate?

Is there an unusual rate of birth defects and if so what kind?

Maybe you should be taking back healthy sperm and eggs.

You said that your culture was centered around the Universities. Weren't they wiped out in the war? They are in cities after all.

Do you use cell phones? Eat allot of red meat? Drive cars? Are airlines in operation? Internationally?

Are people pressured (subtle or otherwise) to adhere to a Christian doctrine?

Do police make drug busts? Are there many jails? What kind of criminals are in them?

What kind of public punishment is there? Sounds like New England during religious persecution and intolerance.

Are there Wholistic healers? Herbal medicines? Alternative life styles?

Is there personal freedom?

Is there an IRS and a need to keep a lot of receipts and paperwork around to justify yourself?

Is the same type of currency used? Is ours today good in say 2010 or 2020?

Other than time travel how do most people get around the country? Do people tend to travel much?

Are people suspicious of strangers or all you one big happy family now?

How do most people die during the war? Radiation, starvation? bullet wounds?

I have more but I better quit to see if you will get to these and don't forget my first posting, please.

Thanks, lola

[kingart]

Posted by John Titor on 02-19-2001 07:25 PM

ERNIE: ((ARTIFICIAL MICROSINGULARITY = LOCALIZED KERR FIELD Through trial and error, and although they are quite heavy, hot and capable of putting out a great deal of energy (300 -- 500 megawatts), it's discovered that these microsingularities can be electrified and captured. It is also interesting to note at this point that electrified singularities also have two event horizons. By spinning these various microsingularities, a localized Kerr field is created.

It looks like a prediction. Is it.))

If you can take that paragraph and find a way to make a dollar from it than more power to you.

BLONNIE: ((i would first like to state that i for one have never said you're an idiot -- i said you are aggravating. which is not really a personal problem w/yourself it is just how i perceive you to be. an adjective -- not a noun.))

Point taken. I apologize.

((so that's what this is all about? you come here & want us to "help" you by asking questions.. so you can figure out how -we- percieve things & why we think the way we do but you do not recipricate the efforts. you only discuss things that you care about or that -you- think are important or that -you- think you will "gain" something from. seems rather -one-sided- to me.))

I was hoping it wouldn't be so confrontational. I don't see how words can harm either one of us.

((so you return home w/a better understanding while we're left here w/the same questions we had before? it doesn't seem very beneficial to -us-..just to -you- (atleast from your statements)).

You must believe that we both have interesting things to say to each other. Isn't that worth it all by itself?

JAVIER: ((What state do you live in now in 2001?)) I am in Florida.

((Is John Titor your real name?)) Yes, John Titor is a real name.

((What do you look like? Post a picture of your self. )) No.

((What is your secret agenda?)) If I tell you, it would just be an agenda, which I'm sure, is much less interesting.

((Is this dialogue between people in these posts part of your secret agenda?)) If I had a secret agenda, talking to people would not be part of it.

((Does your younger self realize what you are?))

Yes, he is aware that I exist but he doesn't know who I am.

((Are you married?))

No but I did have a chance to convince myself otherwise.

((What rank were you in the Army?))

It is the equivalent of Major.

((Where did you go to BCT?))

I wasn't fortunate enough to go to basic. We were fighting a war at the time.

((What company were you with, and what year did you graduate from BCT?))

The organization of the fighting unit I was in fell under the militia. We fought against the organized army.

((You have any fears? If so, what are they?))

I fear people who want others to take action based on their own emotions and irrational fears.

((What are the rules for fraternizing with people who aren't from your time; do you make friends easily here in 2001?))

Have common sense and get your job done. Yes, I have friends.

((What would the DOD do to you if they found you out?))

I'm sure I would end up in one of their nice little padded cells while they poked at my machine with a screwdriver. What do you think they would do?

((What would you do if someone attempted to investigate you? Hundreds of people go through these forums a day I'm sure. Some of which can be government. Aren't you at all worried that it's only a matter of time before you are found out?))

I don't worry about that very much. No one believes me anyway. Right?

((And you said; "I very much want to discuss our cultures but please help me understand how you won't be able to change something I tell you happened on my worldine." ))

Suppose I told you the space shuttle would have a problem landing at Kennedy tomorrow because something goes wrong with the runway. If someone with the authority to do so hears that and makes the decision to land at Edwards…bingo, your future has changed from my past.

((I appreciate you answering these questions for me John, and thank you for calling me your friend.))

I'd really like to believe that

RICK: ((I want you to understand something -- since you're using our discussions to make a determination of our thinking for when you go back.))

I am not qualified to judge you. I merely said it would be a subject of discussion when I return.

((However, rest assured, if I went to the security office and said, "I have access to a time traveler" I'd get laughed at. I'd have to get in touch with the "right people" to "report" the incident, and even then the skeptics would over rule the "believers".))

If that were not the case, I would not be posting at all.

((The US government… Russian or any other, would be in the same boat. They would, if they could believe it, GRAB and hold time travelers -- checking the veracity of their stories and preventing them from having any interaction with anyone.))

Yes, that's what I think too. The irony is, I'm not sure the machine will really do anything for them and all I can give them is stock quotes and sports news. (Just a little humor.)

((So -- John, my comments about being fraudulent -- please don't take them seriously and please do not think I have anything against you personally, nor wish to discredit you. I only want the honest truth.))

I don't. Truth is something we all want. Like opportunity, its something you have to be ready for to recognize it.

((John, what would it take to get you to stick around after spring and leave during the next window of opportunity?))

My parents are much better at cards than I am. I fear they may not let me leave in such debt. If I had all the time I needed, I would spend much more time downloading and archiving.

((I fear that another month or 2 may not be enough time to get as much said and discussed as I would like to have.))

I will continue to answer the posts as long as I can.

((In your "world time" have things like "Saquatch" , "Loch Ness monster", and other reported unusual animals been seen, or captured or explained away. ))

We have our swamp monsters too. In fact, I think it's interesting that we all respond to the unknown the same way regardless of our cultural experiences.

((Is remote viewing used to gather military intelligence?))

I am only aware of it from this worldline. I don't know otherwise.

((Are psychics still common? are they used by the government?))

Yes, psychics exist but I don't have any knowledge of their use by the military.

((Is there a Police Dept as we know it. Have any of your top leaders or politicians been jailed or impeached?))

Yes, we have police but they are organized in smaller groups. Yes, we still have political and religious leaders who find it difficult to obey the law. I would submit to you that the law is only as good as the people's willingness to apply it evenly and swiftly.

((John, any chance of getting a better set of photos with more of the manual?. ))

Yes, I am pondering posting more of the manual. I am also considering having my departure videotaped and yes, it will be free. My only concern is how it might affect the "me" on this worldline.

((John please respond to my question as to "the prediction" did I jump the Gun? (get ahead of myself).)

I'll have to go back and take a second look. Post again and remind me.

((One final question? Is there a Global Superpower state and what nation is it.))

Being a superpower only makes you a target. There is an uneasy balance in the world now that everyone "probably" has nukes, chems or bios. We don't just bomb people for the hell of it anymore. Military power is based on the number of autonomous fighting men who are actually willing to fight.

CRAIG: ((I guess you are held accountable, in some way, for changes that occur in your time period..))

You're pretty much correct about your statement but actually, nothing I do here will affect my home. I hold myself accountable for any damage I do.

((It seems to me that with the cities under such stresses, people would flock in large numbers to remote areas like Winnipeg (sorry guys) or some other region with plenty of clean water, air and soil. Why is this such a nelected fix? I would also imagine that the network of Intentional Communities (communes?) that took root over the years, would provide infrastructural support to a nation needing to find its "FOXFIRE" roots.))

In my opinion, people "now" take clean water, electricity and their feeling of safety for granted. If they leave the city in search of fresh water they first have to make the realization that fresh water is a problem. It's much easier to demand someone else owes you fresh water than it is to leave the lifestyle that made it bad in the first place.

((If I was transposed to the 1920's or 30's, you would have a hard time keeping me off the streets, out of public places, shops, concert halls, etc. just trying to take it all in. Ditto with just about any other time and place.))

I agree with you. The first time I walked into a "superstore" I cried. I'd never seen so much excess in one place at one time.

RICK: ((It is interesting to note that the photos posted on that other site were posted by an "anonomyous time traveler" some time back. It fits the exact description John has give us of his machine. Therefore, based on his discription alone, I would say he is the one that posted the pictures. If he didn't post them, then he is using them for the basis of his story.))

Those are mine. They were posted by another person who I'm sure is reading this also and would be happy to confirm that.

((John -- in looking closely at this device, I see there is a hand control unit -- with some sort of screen on it. I assume this is the computer interface through which the device is programmed (or time settings are made). Is that an accurate assumption? What does the display show you (for instance, does it simply show things like time/date calculations, or radiation [probably wrong word] of the fields from the device?))

Yes, that is a remote unit. The unit itself gets hot and "unapproachable" during long travel and you're usually subjected to about 2 G's. It gets a little difficult to move around and the hand held unit sits next to you. The unit displays many things but time in transit, time to destination, VGL variance and unit temperature are the most common during travel.

((Also, there are 16 apparent buttons. I have to assume further that these are multifunction keys (that is you press one for an alt/control function and other buttons have names or labels and perhaps even numerical meanings). Is that also accurate?))

Yes, the menus are screen driven.

Posted by Pamela Moore on 02-19-2001 07:53 PM

Smile

Confirming for John:

""""RICK: ((It is interesting to note that the photos posted on that other site were posted by an "anonomyous time traveler" some time back. It fits the exact description John has give us of his machine. Therefore, based on his discription alone, I would say he is the one that posted the pictures. If he didn't post them, then he is using them for the basis of his story.))

Those are mine. They were posted by another person who I'm sure is reading this also and would be happy to confirm that. """""

Yes, I will confirm the fact that John did send me the photos and I sent them to Doc ,who is also a friend of mine ,to post on his board.and I will be more than happy to post more of your manual if you want, John.

sincerely, pamela

[kingart]

Posted by Lola Montez on 02-19-2001 08:13 PM

How do I find the pictures and manual pages you are speaking of? Thanks

Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-19-2001 10:07 PM

John, So those responds to our questions took you 5 days to come up with? Is that the best you could do?

Your not really efficient are you, when you're asked to think on your feet?

You said you went to basic training remember, on the other forum? And that's how you got asked to be apart of this Time Travel project in the first place. Be consistent.

And the question was, "Is John Titor your real name?" Your responds, "Yes, John Titor is a real name."

And you didn't even answer the other questions fully. You answered them like a politician would, and that's by stepping around the truth without actually lying. You're to generic. But it's logical enough to keep your story and claims going.

But for how long ?

-Javier C. [Edited by Javier Cortez on 02-19-2001 at 10:13 PM]

Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-19-2001 10:18 PM

John you were asked these 2 questions, and you responded to them. But I would like you to answer them again, and to please elaborate more on them. Thank you.

((John, any chance of getting a better set of photos with more of the manual?. ))

……..My only concern is how it might affect the "me" on this worldline.

((I guess you are held accountable, in some way, for changes that occur in your time period..))

……..nothing I do here will affect my home. I hold myself accountable for any damage I do.

So where do you stand? Your awfully unclear when asked questions of this nature. And you always give a conflicting point of view to others you've had to answer. And it's always about you.

So how about we set the record straight here this time, huh ?

Oh and by the way everyone. John here says no one believes him… Is that right everyone? Well if that's true or not, he's in FLORIDA and goes by the name of JOHN TITOR. Do your own investigation, and show him how much you believe him. I'm sure you'll get some takers .

-J.C. [Edited by Javier Cortez on 02-19-2001 at 10:46 PM]

Posted by John Titor on 02-20-2001 05:06 AM

JAVIER: ((So those responds to our questions took you 5 days to come up with? Is that the best you could do?))

How many days seem normal?

((You said you went to basic training remember, on the other forum? And that's how you got asked to be apart of this Time Travel project in the first place. Be consistent.))

Your question referred to army basic training. My earlier comment referred to be choosen for this mission.

((…You answered them like a politician would, and that's by stepping around the truth without actually lying. You're to generic. But it's logical enough to keep your story and claims going.))

I'm not sure but it sure looks like your trying to say I'm being truthful within your expectations. However, if you're trying to hurt my feelings, comparing me to a politician will do it.

(……..My only concern is how it might affect the "me" on this worldline.)

Actually, this is a good question. If the "me" here goes on to have the same type of life and future work that I did, it may not look good on his resume that another "him" has left a videotape behind of his future mission to 1975.

((I guess you are held accountable, in some way, for changes that occur in your time period..)) ((So where do you stand? Your awfully unclear when asked questions of this nature. And you always give a conflicting point of view to others you've had to answer. And it's always about you.))

If you look at my concern carefully, you can see that it won't affect me at all. It affects him.

((Oh and by the way everyone. John here says no one believes him… Is that right everyone? Well if that's true or not, he's in FLORIDA and goes by the name of JOHN TITOR. Do your own investigation, and show him how much you believe him. I'm sure you'll get some takers))

I'm touched by your concern for my safety.

Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-20-2001 07:49 AM

Art had a fellow on the show the other day from a Time Travel organization.

John, do they have anything to do with the "future" of time travel as YOU know it? The information can be found on Art Bell's site, as well as the full audio archive of the show.

If you get the chance, listen in, and check out the web site and tell us what you think of the information the doctor provided on the show.

About video taping the depature… Let us assume you do this, and your agents (family?) in florida send the tape to the Sci Fi channel, or to Art Bell… how would this affect you in the future?

Theoretically speaking, I doubt that anyone could determine that you actually time traveled, but it would certainly make a very good show.

When you depart this time, what is it we will see? Will the vehicle simply vanish instantly, or fade out? Will a "bubble" of time develop around the vehicle causing an darkened sphere preventing light from going through? Will anything (other biological entities) caught in the "time sphere" vanish as well -- more specifically, any plants or animal life that approaches too closely to the vehicle… will they get dragged along?

Rick

Posted by Pamela Moore on 02-20-2001 08:16 AM

Rick, I am not familiar with Art's site what is the name of the program on the time travel organization audio and how do i find it? I would like to listen to it. thanks.

sincerely, pamela

I know John is busy archiving and I am going to help him out on this one because he has already answered the last couple of questions you had. I am sure he will appreciate it. here you go Rick:

Pamela: 1.What exactly would an observer see as they saw you arriving in this time? and exactly what would they see as you departed? would you just appear suddenly or slowly? would you look like a heat mirage for awhile? any light effects? or hazy misty shimmering distortion?

Time travel_0- The observation of time travelers "appearing" suddenly in a world line do not happen very often. There are two cases and two points of view to consider. In the first case, the time machine does not move as it goes from one world line to another and then returns. The people watching on the original world linewould wave good bye and watch as the machine is turned on. There would be a static discharge and the air would appear to "ripple" as if it were getting denser. Then, it would stop and the machine will have appeared to have gone no where. If the machine doesn't move its position from world line to world line, the observer would not see it disappear at all. In the second case, if the machine is moved, it would disappear from the viewpoint of the observer and return in a different location based on where it was moved and turned on from the destination world line. In that case, the rippling seems to dissolve the machine and it disappears. If that happens while you are watching it leave and you expect it to return, you know it was moved or had a serious malfunction. It is actually quite dangerous to get too close to a distortion unit as it enters or leaves a world line. It vents radiation and has a very strong localized gravity field. Personally, I worry about that a great deal.

Pamela:2.What is the dimension of the field around the car? How many feet out from the car would you say it goes?

Timetravel_0-It can be adjusted to some degree. The CG (center of gravity) is adjustable within about 4 feet and the unit is effective about 10 to 12 feet in either direction from there. The vertical distance is quite a bit shorter and is determined by sensors in the unit.

Pamela:3.approximately in inches how much of the ground is taken with you in one trip?

timetravel_0-Depending on weather or not you are going forward or backward, the footprint of the unit is different. I wouldn't quite say it "scoops" up the ground cleanly. It sort of vibrates it loose and takes it along for the ride. It looks like someone raked the ground an inch or so deep with a small hand hoe or shovel. The negative ergosphere "scoops" up the front and back areas of the field. The positive ergosphere leaves a longer area near the center of mass. Its about a cubic foot of dirt spread out over six square feet or so.

Pamela:4.If they put the device in a house and turned it on what do you think would happen?

Timetravel_0-It might not be as destructive as you think. Depending on how close any object is to the field, it might not do any damage at all except for the floor.

Pamela:5.what would happen to a bird or small animal that ran across the field right when it was producing the field to travel?

Timetravel_0-It would be quickly spread out over the lateral length of the gravity field. Imagine being squished and stretched at the same time. I would imagine anything left after that would be vaporized and generate static electricity.

Pamela:6.how hot would you say the temperature gets on the outside of the car while in operation?

Timetravel_0-Very! hot. Depending on the power setting, 100 to 120 degrees is average.

Pamela:7.is the car in drive mode when the device is activated or is it totally turned off?

Timetravel_0-The car is off and the brake on.

Pamela: 8.has the device been tested on ships and airplanes?

Timetravel_0-Not that I'm aware of. Its important that it remain as still as possible so the gravity sensors can get a good lock. The divergence confidence would be way off if the vehicle was moving.

Pamela:9.do you wear special uniforms when you time travel? what do they look like and does your group have a timetravel emblem or group name?

Timetravel_0-I wear a standard civilian service uniform during instruction and training. Its sort of a cross between an army uniform and overalls. We do have a quarter master who distributes clothing appropriate to where ever we are going. There is a patch. It is round and has a graphic of a Kerr singularity (sort of looks like an eye with gravity waves around it) with two spiral paths running through it's center. One path represents the "safe" way and the other is the path to God. The bottom of the patch has my unit number along with "Temporal Recon" printed on it. However, we remove any identification and patches before we go anywhere

………………………………………. Pamela: by the way can you tell me what it feels like to time travel? when you are in the process of doing it what does it feel like and what do you see and hear. you made mention that you had to get use to the fields. Do you see a bright flash of light?

Timetravel_0: Interesting first question. The unit has a ramp up time after the destination coordinates are fed into the computers. An audible alarm and a small light start a short countdown at which point you should be secured in a seat. The gravity field generated by the unit overtakes you very quickly. You feel a tug toward the unit similar to rising quickly in an elevator and it continues to rise based on the power setting the unit is working under. At 100% power, the constant pull of gravity can be as high as 2 Gs or more depending on how close you are to the unit. There are no serious side effects but I try to avoid eating before a flight.

No bright flash of light is seen. Outside, the vehicle appears to accelerate as the light is bent around it. We have to wear sunglasses or close our eyes as this happens due to a short burst of ultraviolet radiation. Personally I think it looks like your driving under a rainbow. After that, it appears to fade to black and remains totally black until the unit is turned off. We are advised to keep the windows closed as a great deal of heat builds up outside the car. The gravity field also traps a small air pocket around the car that acts as your only O2 supply unless you bring compressed air with you. This pocket will only last for a short period and a carbon sensor tells us when it's too dangerous. The C204 unit is accurate from 50 to 60 years a jump and travels at about 10 years an hour at 100% power.

You do hear a slight hum as the unit operates and when the power changes or the unit turns off. There is a great deal of electrical crackling noise from static electricity. [Edited by Pamela Moore on 02-20-2001 at 08:54 AM]

Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-20-2001 08:31 AM

http://www.artbell.com/topics.html (Link here) The information below will be listed on the site. The guy is Dr. Anderson. His site is listed below.

Rick

02/15/01 -- Thu/Fri

Guest: Richard C. Hoagland

Book: The Monuments of Mars: A City on the Edge of Forever Website: http://www.enterprisemission.com Topic Search: Apollo Missions

Guest: Dr David Anderson

Website: http://www.time-travel.com Topic Search: Time Travel

Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-20-2001 09:57 AM

Hi Pamela. Thanks for the answers. I assume you have all this archived from another BBS or something?

What's your part in all this? How did you get the pictures of the machine? Do you know, or have you met John personally?

Have you seen the time machine yourself?

John -- If you wouldn't mind, could you post a few more photos of the manual. Not anything that might give away some secret or something, but something that would be interesting from a scientific point of view? Thanks

Rick

[kingart]

Posted by Pamela Moore on 02-20-2001 03:20 PM

Smile

Hi Rick,

((I assume you have all of this archived from another BBS or something?))

This piece of information origionally came from an email conversation between John and I and yes, it was posted on the timetravelinstitute BB. I only submitted it here so John didnt have to explain it all over again. and it answered your question. I asked him the same question.

((What's your part in all of this?))

Iam not exactly sure…yet.

((How did you get pictures of the machine?))

John gave them to me.

((Do you know, or have you met John personally?))

I have been talking to John since Nov. 2, 2000. Where I came in contact with him through the timetravelinstitute. I have been in communication with him every since.

Thankyou for the link, Rick. I listened to Dr. Anderson it was very interesting indeed. alot of information. hopefully John will have a chance to listen to it. I am pleasantly surprised I didnt realize what a great source of information Art had here on his web site. I will be listening to several other audios.

sincerely, pamela

Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-20-2001 03:38 PM

You flatter your self John. You know very well I didn't mean that. I think that was a desprate move on your part. Like always attempting to turn it back to the reciever.

And I'm picking up that your a bit annoyed. What ever happened to thinking rational? One of your fears isn't it?

I am pressed for time at the moment, but I will return later to finish this post A.S.A.P.

-Javier C.

Posted by Brett Fredrico on 02-20-2001 05:09 PM

John posted the following yesterday(2/19/01): <----SNIP Suppose I told you the space shuttle would have a problem landing at Kennedy tomorrow because something goes wrong with the runway. If someone with the authority to do so hears that and makes the decision to land at Edwards…bingo, your future has changed from my past. <----SNIP

Well, what did happen today? The space shuttle was scheduled to land at Kennedy as of this morning but was changed to Edwards at the last minute because of weather. This happens almost half the time though…..so John had a (50/50) chance of telling us the future if that is what he intended to do.

Posted by John Titor on 02-20-2001 05:23 PM

((so John had a (50/50) chance of telling us the future if that is what he intended to do.))

Yes, there was a 50/50 chance of that happening but the odds were easily one out two that it could have gone the other way.

Posted by Phillip Stout on 02-20-2001 05:56 PM

John,

You said that there will be a big war right? And that Russia will nuke some of our major cities, right? Can you at least tell us which cities will be nuked? I'm already guessing you can't. I pray Anchorage isn't one of them..

Are we traveling in space in 2036? Have we made it to Mars? Have we colonized the Moon? Has first contact with an alien race occured?

Posted by Doug Beauchamp on 02-20-2001 06:51 PM

Just a few questions, I apologize if they don't seem 100% thought out or if they've already been answered, I'm tired and I have a lot of work still to do.

1) You say your machine has roughly a 60 year limit. Is it possible to go back 60 years and then another 60 years?

2) Have the people of your time proved the "worldline theory?" If they have, is there any information you can share with is that proves it?

3) Ever hear the story of Edipus? To make a long sotry short, after being told he will kill his father and marry his mother he moves far away. On the road he acciddently killed his father and ended up marrying his mother. Thus, the prophecy is what caused him to fulfill it. You say you don't want to effect anything too much by giving out information, but you could drastically change this worldline just by talking about the war, or anything for that matter.

Posted by Stephen McKay on 02-20-2001 06:58 PM

John, If you're interested in posting some more photos and (pending your decision) the video of your departure, I would be happy to display them on my site. I've only got 5 meg storage, but I'm not using it at the moment. I'm eager to see some better photos E-mail me if you're interested.

Steve

Posted by James R.Quayle III on 02-20-2001 07:29 PM

Question

John Titor ,i posted to you before and would like to let you know that i would love to come along for the ride to the future if you need a sidekick,i am able to fly hot air balloons,a good shot,physically strong and quick,smart on my feet in case a odd event occurs and I would not mind leaving this time to go to yours.I am not attached to any one on this earth ,after all my ET encounters I need not worry of much of this earth,i am 31 and have much experience in the Occult(the hidden),and ET/human affairs,Oh and i know another TT traveler,and have met others.agentq3@hotmail.com I thought i would get to the point ,and those who brave to ask get the Willy Wonka Golden TIcket,eh,John Titor,(Or do you not know of that movie reference) ?

Posted by Chris Forrest on 02-20-2001 08:01 PM

Smile

John Titor,

ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US.

Well, I don't buy your story. Sorry, some slang terms seem to confuse you. I don't BELIEVE your story. I don't pretend to know the first thing about such advanced topics as time travel, calculating a NFL quarterback rating, or the perfect temperature to cook a Hot Pocket in. Having written all that, of course I do have a question, something that will definitely tell me whether you are full of it or not.

So here goes…

There have been many movements in music…rock, disco, and hip hop are some of them. Though most people probably can't rifle out names of musical groups from 35 years ago, they probably would have a basic awareness of what musical influences prevailed at the time. So my question is…what is the NEXT big movement in music that will take place here in the US, specifically?

I have the feeling this sort of knowledge isn't the stuff you go to Vegas and bet on, because it's pretty generalized and pretty vague, as well. Of course, being as simple-minded as I am, I would figure that most people your age would know at least the types of musical influences that were around as they were growing up. A direct answer will work here, if you don't mind.

>>Chris>>

[kingart]

Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-20-2001 09:58 PM

John, I like your format, and I see the representative you hired to answer your posts does also. Don't mind if I steal it from you for just a moment .

((How many days seem normal?))

2 at the most. Especially when you make grandiose claims of being from the year 2036. Your credibility suffers big time when you don't reply. Gives the impression that your trying to figure out what to say next .

((Your question referred to army basic training. My earlier comment referred to be choosen for this mission.))

Are you sure about that? I remember distinctively you saying that you got approached for this mission right after basic training. I mean, it was one of my first posts to you in the other forum. After saying "good thing I got injured, or that would have been my fate too."

By the way, not to be picky or anything. But I know how perfect you like to have things with your writing. I just wanted to point out that you misspelled CHOOSEN. It's Chosen, with one O.

((I'm not sure but it sure looks like your trying to say I'm being truthful within your expectations. However, if you're trying to hurt my feelings, comparing me to a politician will do it.))

Ok, here's were we had a failure in communication. I have been saying all along that you manipulate your statements to benefit your story. I was only saying that you keep doing this, while dodging certain things that would discredit you. But mainly what I'm saying is that your story is very important to you, and that consistency is paramount to you. Right?

((Actually, this is a good question. If the "me" here goes on to have the same type of life and future work that I did, it may not look good on his resume that another "him" has left a videotape behind of his future mission to 1975.))

Now you think about this? So you're this Time Traveler from the year 2036 who somehow managed to learn perfect English while fighting a war. But when you Time Traveled to the year 2000 you just had to spill the beans to everyone, and are now finally realizing the out comes of your actions might not be wise.

Man, how irresponsible is that? Do you have any idea how you exploited your self here? Talk about chewing gum and walking at the same time .

((If you look at my concern carefully, you can see that it won't affect me at all. It affects him.))

Yeah I see your concern.

1. Announcing to the whole world who you are.

2. Telling everyone what the future is going to be like, and what to watch out for.

3. Sharing scientific theories of Time Travel to your past, which is our present .

3. Using your perfect English and logic to manipulate others into believing and following your story.

4. Asking for volunteers to go back with you to the year 2036.

5. Saying where you were born and where you live, and knowing that government officials read these post everyday.

6. Admitting that you have a secret agenda. With that said, you know anything you say can be questionable. In other words, you can be lying to everyone big time about everything, your purpose, your motives, your reason for being here.

7. Offering to make a videotape of your departure.

8. And much much more.

Yeah I can see how you're really concerned.

I'm sure little Johnny will thank you for making his stay in a government facility the most comfortable during the war and missing his opportunity in becoming a Time Traveler?

((I'm touched by your concern for my safety.))

You said your self no one believes you. I was merely trying to see if you were correct. Excuse me for trying to take a poll.

-Javier C.

[kingart]

Posted by John Titor on 02-21-2001 06:33 AM

Perhaps it goes without saying but I would urge everyone to listen to Art's show tonight.

Posted by Mel Reckling on 02-21-2001 07:43 AM

Am I getting this right? You load up all the people who want to go with you in the back of your Chevy pickup, drive from Florida to Minnesota. Sell that truck in Minnesota, buy another truck older than 1975, load everyone back in that truck, drive back to Florida and then depart back to the future. Sounds like it will be quite a sight to behold. If you can, swing by Ohio and give me a honk. Your welcome to stay at my place.

Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-21-2001 08:01 AM

Why is that John, somehow you managed to pay your way to get on the air? So your thinking big now huh?

No problem.

Little Johny needs all the free publicity he can get.

Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-21-2001 08:26 AM

Javier -- I read your note here, and was thinking about something you said… something about "knowing government officials read these posts every day". Actually, I really don't think they do.

Think about this for a minute. I am one of the few government people I know that read stuff like this. To me, it is interesting (and there isn't anything wrong with fantasy role playing in my opinion -- assuming that is what John [and perhaps the rest of us] are doing).

It makes sense that one would think they are, but.. who has time? (I do… I have a pretty inanne job most of the time so I read stuff like this when I'm waiting on backups to complete or other things running in the background).

I seriously doubt the CIA or FBI has the man power or the time to do it. Secondarily to that -- the so-called "Carnivore" system can't POSSIBLY look at everything out there. I know it can't. No matter what people think. It isn't possible to catch every conversation, email, web page, pager data or anything else in the "ether". IMPOSSIBLE at this point.

Anyway… that's my opinion on the government watching this stuff. They simply "don't believe it" and "have better things to do".

Posted by John Titor on 02-21-2001 08:45 AM

ROY: ((Just wanted to recommend a book I think might tell you volumes about present macro socio-economic conditions that lay the foundation for the evolving political divisions you state lead to a civil war in the US in the near future. The book is "When Corporations Rule the World" by John C. Korten.))

I'll look for it, thanks. I have a couple for you. The Nine Nations of North America and/or The Physics of Immortality (anyone recognize this author).

ANDREW: ((1) would you be able to internationally travel by: traveling to the year 2001, fly a plane to the desired destination, and then go to the future from there? ))

You can only travel in time from a static position (at least with the unit I have). In order to do even this, you must have knowledge of the local terrain and building structures. That's one of the basic protocols we do in any time period for possible, future travelers.

((2) If each world line is separate from the others, then wouldn't the consequences of your actions now have no effect on your original world line?))

Yes, that's correct.

((If this is the case, why won't you tell us things that will give us knowledge or let us avoid death?))

I am not qualified to judge if you deserve it or not and I have no idea if you may be the next (for lack of a better reference) Hitler. However, if I were able to physically help you from a situation because I was there and I knew it was coming, I would help you.

((My only geuss is that you are not a time traveller, and don't want to say anything that could make a gullable person do something stupid. ))

Yes, I am aware that is the obvious first answer but I would hope my moral and logical arguments at least make a dent in your thinking. If you were a time traveler, would you be comfortable giving out all that information after considering the possible consequences? (Provided you knew it). If I were you, I would be worried about what the next time traveler might do….even by mistake.

((3) how can I leave a message for myself in the future if the things I do in this worldline do not effect the others?))

Just post it here. All this information will probably end up on the web in 2036. If you're alive then and you think ahead for some reason to do a search on yourself, you might see it. Of course the "you" there would have no memory of doing it.

MICHAEL: ((your prediction of its pending disintegration, beginning in three short years, is utterly improbable, if not impossible.))

Have you see the documentary on Waco? You can drive to a video store and rent it. It's called "Waco -- Rules of Engagement." Just for argument's sake, what do you think would happen if information were discovered that confirmed the worst accusations made against the law enforcement officers there? Would you hope….nothing?

((P.S. The idea of a farmer general leaving his fields to lead his country's troops to victory is an old one going back, at least, to Roman times. Lucius Quintus Cincinnatus, I believe, was the gentleman's name, from the 5th Century B.C. Roman Republic.))

Yes, I often think about that when I see pictures of "my" farmer general in Omaha. It's a large bronze depiction holding a shotgun in one hand a copy of the Constitution in the other. He is looking up at the sky in defiance of God after his father was killed. (At least his name isn't Sparticus or William).

ERNIE: ((I guess if you asked Joseph Campbell there are only a few stories and all literature is the re-telling of the same few stories in different settings.))

Just like life.

Lola and the rest coming…

Posted by Lola Montez on 02-21-2001 10:28 AM

Javier, You are getting very hostile. Lighten up! Why are you so threatened? Does it really matter if John is authentic or not? The worst consequence of believing him is being better prepared in case of any emergency-natural disaster or otherwise. Weren't you a boyscout? I think it would be more interesting, informative and just plain fun to find out more of what his vision of the future is than always trying to put him on the defensive. (John, please stop buying into it)Do you think you are going to finally find something to post that will get him to cry "Uncle!". (Why wouldn't he speak English?) I think you are getting too upset over this and you should ask yourself why. Kind regards, Lola

Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-21-2001 11:18 AM

How am I being hostile? I'm just asking John questions and answering his comments in the best manner that I know how. No one here is being hostile.

Well, maybe you with those statements.

Better then being a fanatic, who believes in people so blindly.

Well John, you have another fan to back you up.

Somehow some people here believe you need to be protected and backed up. Go fig.

It must be your story that appeals to them .

And I'm exposing you. And that just hurts some people's feelings. [Edited by Javier Cortez on 02-21-2001 at 11:43 AM]

Posted by James R.Quayle III on 02-21-2001 01:05 PM

Thumbs up

Hello John I was wondering if you could respond to my post, I was serious.Agentq3

Posted by Joe Norris on 02-21-2001 01:29 PM

John:

I guess there will be no answer about my Bill Clinton/Bill Gates post

Posted by John Titor on 02-21-2001 02:04 PM

If you take a look, I am answering every question in order unless I see something quick that I think needs a response.

Thanks.

Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-21-2001 02:53 PM

How about giving an estimate in how long they will have to wait to get an answer to their questions . [Edited by Javier Cortez on 02-21-2001 at 03:03 PM]

Posted by Doug Beauchamp on 02-21-2001 03:32 PM

Many people asking about the dangers of the war are asking about cities being nuked. During school today I was thinking about this, and nuclear warfare doesn't seem to be the biggest form of fighting in the future. Other than the small countries, I doubt nuclear warheads are going to be shot from each end of the globe. To me, what seems like the biggest threat is biological warfare. John, you say one of the hardest things to do in 2036 is find clean water. You also say you only trust food you've grown. Is any of this a result of your expiriences with biological warfare? Is bilogical warfare a major threat in this war you speak of?

This is definately the least serious of my questions, but is there anymore background information you can give (What city you were born in, etc)? I understand if you can't but after this thread is over I may get a little bored and see if I can find any information on the John Titor of "today," assuming that's your real name.

Posted by Pamela Moore on 02-21-2001 04:22 PM

Let's get the facts straight.

Javier I have been over those pages with a very open mind trying to figuere out where you have seen John make that statement and I couldnt find it.

This is the one you are claiming: [((Your question referred to army basic training. My earlier comment referred to be choosen for this mission)) Are you sure about that? I remember distinctively you saying that you got approached for this mission right after basic training. I mean, it was one of my first posts to you in the other forum. After saying "good thing I got injured, or that would have been my fate also.]

You made the statement on -Jan 1 2001 page 6 "well its a good thing I got injured in the Army, or else that might have been my fate as well."

awaiting your findings… could you please copy and paste the statement and tell me what page it is on…thanks.

sincerely, pamela

[kingart]

Posted by John Titor on 02-21-2001 04:35 PM

LOLA:

((How far from what size city is it the safest to be?))

A 10 Kiloton nuclear weapon will vaporize metal for about ½ a mile and have a heat effect for about 3 miles. A 100 Megaton nuclear weapon will vaporize metal to 35 miles and have a heat effect to about 250 miles. I believe the largest nuclear weapon ever built and tested was about 60 megatons. As I recall, the popular strategy toady is to strike targets with multiple numbers of smaller warheads. The 100 Kt to 1 Mt are the most popular. I believe there are about 150 -- 200 major cities in the US and half as many military targets. Please correct me someone if I am grossly incorrect.

((You suggest bicycle. What about horseback?))

Yes, horses are good if you can feed and water them. Also, it's very hard to eat a bicycle.

((Should we be stockpiling guns?))

The answer to this is NO! You will draw a great deal of negative attention to yourself. I recommend become familiar with firearms. This means taking a safety course and learning to shoot and clean many different types. There will be plenty of guns around when you need them.

((What kind of people will be the ones least trustworthy?))

The people with the most to lose if the world changes -Camel through the eye of a needle?

((Is the conflict racial in any way?))

Not at all. In fact, I would say it goes a long way toward erasing racial problems.

((Does the civil war start in such a way that with this foreknowledge those willing will have time to remove themselves to safer locations.))

Yes. You will be forced to ask yourself how many civil rights you will give up to feel safe.

((Will you readily be able to identify the enemy.))

They will be the ones arresting and holding prople without due process.

((Does living near a river with a distillation unit take care of water problems?))

There is an odd saying that might be appropriate here. Safe is anywhere a hungry person can't walk in three days. Water is important but you must consider that when people need it they will know where to get it. I would not plan on planting myself permanently next to a water source. Yes, distillation dose make water safe but the runoff is highly dangerous. Please remember that distillation is not boiling.

((How are the five people within the 100 miles contacted?))

The goal is to have a place to go other than your house and to be able to trust someone with your life. Foster those relationships now.

((Do communications stay intact.))

Main communication systems no, CB, sideband and non-repeating short-wave, yes.

((I have 86 acres on a river in Central California about 125 miles north of LA. I have geese, turkeys, horses, chickens, milk cows, good pasture, a well run by electricity, and a garden. I also have two teenage sons who are gun nuts. Plenty of rifles, semi-automatic and otherwise.))

Be mobile. Set aside the things you absolutely would need and can carry on your back. You will not be able to stay anywhere indefinitely even with provisions and firearms.

(( Will he be asked to kill his countrymen?))

I'm not positive but don't they sign a small piece of paper now asking them if they would have a problem with that?

Posted by Roy Meserve on 02-21-2001 05:44 PM

Smile

Thanks for those titles. I will look for them. To J Cortez chill… reality (and time) are very plastic things- we change the future AND the past constantly, and to far less noble ends. But, in the spirit of our friend- feel free to doubt and question- I do myself but I don't let it stop me from trying to learn from what he has to say. Even the very common sense 'rules' for the potential future…. it costs me next to nothing to be aware or to prepare.

Cheers,

Roy

ps John, it is Wednesday the 21st- did you say to tune into the show tonight?!!! Cause if so, I'm there! Hope you call.

Posted by Jim Houlahan on 02-21-2001 06:30 PM

John,

I'm guessing the date of your return to the future is April 19th. Is this correct?

Of course, if you're just "having us on" then April 1st would be more appropriate.

Posted by Angel Lynnn on 02-21-2001 06:57 PM

Exclamation

I think John was saying to listen to Dr. Day tonight. Check out her website:

http://www.drday.com/

Feb. 21, 2001

Angellynnn

Posted by Ernie Vega on 02-21-2001 07:00 PM

Smile

Now I'm not volunteering but…..

I've noticed as so must have most of us. There are a lot of questions being asked that John has responded to. Perhaps one of us could volunteer to compile all the direct q&a sort of a John Titor FAQ. This way new posters can read all the answers that have been given and not have the same questions asked over and over.

John, we can have a topic just for the faq right on this board I think?

General… I don't think John is starved for web space to post his manual and pictures, many have offered John whatever resources he needs including me. So far he has not been interested.

I'd be more than happy to give him a web site, a domain name, for that matter a web server if it would help get more answers and time out of him. Call me gullible if you want but I would do that.

John: My mention of Joseph Campbell was a rebuttal to someone who claimed that your General story was un-original. In fact the most likely leader of a movement like the one you describe would most likely be a Farmer since being a Farmer would provide much of the scenario required.

My asking you if the mention of CERN going on-line and discovering this and that, was a prediction was a genuine question completely un-related to "making a Buck". I wondered if it was just a hint you were giving as to something that could be verified after the fact with little chance of you mentioning it having an effect on it.

I'm sure it's hard to remember what each poster has said, but in my case you missed. I have argued that the important thing here is the discussion and not if "you are" or "you are not" a TT. For me what is interesting is the type of questions that are being asked, and the apparent hostility that someone like you can be subjected to for no "good" reason.

Ultimately there is no way to "prove" anything conclusive here. Since I believe time travel is possible "now" I don't have a problem with your story. I like your story since it ends up being a better world than we have now. I hope it is true. If it is we are all lucky to have had a chance to talk to a TT. If not then I wish you either a quick recovery or a great career as a Sci Fi writer.

What can we gain from this discussion? is the real question. I have already benefited from it as I believe you have, and many others.

Javier… To comment on Lola's post. I understand your frustration, you want your questions answered.

If I were John I would not answer your questions either or skirt them. Not because they are not valid, as they may be, but because your buttons are being pressed by his non compliance.

I'm sure even in 2036 there is a tendency to tease one's detractors if they make themselves available.

To expose someone you have to present "proof" the same type of "proof" you are asking him for. According to our Laws if this were a court case John would not have to prove where he came from. The burden of proof is on the prosecution. It's up to you to prove he is not a TT.

So far most of your assertions have been related to either John not answering your questions, or some inconsistency in his story revolving around his Basic training and it's relevance to when he was recruited for time travel. Also his use of "perfect" English. His English is good but far from perfect.

John has "not answered" some of my questions to "my satisfaction" and I for one am not ready to sign up for either the "I believe" camp or the "I don't believe" camp. My reason for straddling the fence at this time is that.

No one here has presented any evidence either way that would be conclusive. Not you, not John, not anyone.

In a game of chess you have to either kill your oponent or chip away at his defenses until you trap him and he gives up. To do that you have to mount an offense that will neutralize his defenses. Conversly you have to mount a defense to repel his onslaught. So far you've not mounted either.

John is "playing you" Javier. It's an old trick, if your most vociferous detractor continually puts on weak attacks, it takes attention away from the really challenging questions.

I'd be willing to bet that if you took all the posts from this BBS and the other one, and compared all of it, you may find more ammo for your cause.

If I was going to come after a person, I would not warn him, I'd just get all my facts together, give him no warning and set up a line of questioning designed to trap him into "Mutually exclusive statements" if you could log enough of these you could prove he's having trouble keeping the story together. A good sign that he is not telling the truth.

Example: If you know enough about physics you can get him to say he doesn't undestand a concept that would be required to understand some other concept he claims to understand. To do that you have to know more than him. He knows as much physics as anyone posting here to say the least.

Colloquial slips: If you analize all his statements you'll find he is aware of some colloquialisms, and not others. That by itself is not much since he claims to come from the future you would expect some colloquial deviation. The thing to look at is which ones he knows and uses and which ones he doesn't.

He knows "make a buck" and "more power to you", and "off the cuff". He is unaware or dislikes "buy in" or "buy that" Does that prove anything? not really. Given enough text you can profile him and make a good guess.

Still it doesn't "prove" anything. You have the same chance of exposing him as he has of convincing you. None.

Here's one for you John.

What 82 page book written in England in 1884 is required reading for all physics students? I admit it's possible you may not know in 2036, but highly unlikely. The same reason that makes it so important for physics students would make it just as important to understanding Time travel. Secondly why is this little book so important. If he doesn't know this it lends more circumstantial evidence to your side. But he could ask someone and then how do you prove that?

How many amateur Physicists here know that answer without looking it up? Really. If you don't know this off the top of your head, you don't know squat about Hyperdimensional Physics or it's potential technological application. Unless you are Stephen Hawking, this is what it takes to get started. By the way Stephen Hawking read this book and knows exactly what I'm talking about. As do all phycisists.

How about this? Let John make a recording of himself saying he is from the future and whatever other part of his story he wants. We could submit that to voice stress analysis. Is that enough? no again, since a well trained person can beat a voice stress analysis by using self hypnosis or having someone hypnotize them prior to recording. Again no proof.

Short of grabbing John and pumping him full of Sodium pentathol you are not going to have any conclusive proof until after he leaves and has made some predictions for you to check. Since he says this is not his timeline you can't be sure a prediction is even a prediction. Again "no Proof".

So how is it you propose to expose John? can you show "me" your rationale. After all your statements and mine are up for scrutiny the moment we make them just like John.

I realize in your mind you already have exposed him, just not good enough to convince me, and I would hazard to guess a number of others here.

Let's say everyone here agreed John was a fake. What then? No more dicussion. End of exchange no more platform. Maybe.

Anyway. that's my take. I don't think you are hostile just a little excited.

Rick? any reports from your guys looking at the pics/manuals?

Welcome Lola

Peace

[kingart]

Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-21-2001 07:08 PM

Exclamation

Pamela, Touchy…

When I have a little time I'll do a keyword search for it. I'm sure it's there. Why else would I say it? Right?

No need to get upset with me. I know he's your friend, but stop protecting him all the time.

And to everyone else here. You all fail to see the big picture here. You have welcomed a stranger into your lives who is not what he appears to be. And I being one of the only one with enough sense to see that, you get upset with me.

Excuse me, but are you forgetting that this man has a secret agenda? You can all be being played right now.

But no, that doesn't matter to you. At least I make no secret of what I am. A Time Travel Activist.http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Atrium/9822/

Thank you, Javier C.

Posted by Pamela Moore on 02-21-2001 07:20 PM

(((When I have a little time I'll do a keyword search for it. I'm sure it's there. Why else would I say it? Right? ))

will that be within two days? I shall await….

sincerely, pamela

Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-21-2001 08:06 PM

Pamela, I don't know why your so upset with me, but you know my word is good. If I said I will do something, you know I will do it. Or have you forgotten that?

-Javier C.

Posted by Craig Cuthbert on 02-21-2001 08:20 PM

Javier you will obviously be one of the survivors ??

John -- Thanks for your replies.

Does the sense of "here and now" continue for you in 2036, while you are here?

IS your sense of "timing" off, in new time environments? I've heard people who have "out-of-body-experiences" find that it sometimes takes a day or two to regain a sense of normalcy in their minute interactions with the physical world.

I remember reading a book about 7 years ago.

GENERATIONS: THE HISTORY OF AMERICAS FUTURE

It was a sociological look at the history of the United States through the lens of different generational groups. The Authors noted a four cycle repetition.

Its a bit of hard book to summarize, though its central thesis is this -- History follows certain cycles. With respect to this folder, what stuck out for me was that the Millenial Kids (recently born and probably up to about 10 or 12 now) were of the same type as the kids who grew up and built the US infrastructure during the 30's and 40's -and then fought WW2. (GI Generation) The GIs were classified as a very civic minded generation. So will the Millenial Kids(MKs). MKs will go on to build the global infrastructure of the information age, the new transportation systems and the new municipal infrastructures. Similar to the GIs they will then go on to engage in global conflict.

John -- You were born about halfway into this cycle. BTW, GenXers would be about 40-50 years old in 2036. How they doin'? Were they pretty resourceful scrappers?(Fighters/Survivors)

Bottom line was -- prepare for wars around 2008-2012.

http://www.timepage.org/

Also see the back page of the New Yorker Dec. 25, 2000 -Jan. 1 2001. I've seen a few references recently to this growing cultural tension, one that supercedes the obvious class, racial and economic divides. Its different and more aggressive cultural mitosis than I had earlier noticed.

Posted by John Titor on 02-21-2001 08:48 PM

EMMETT: ((In this experiment the traveller only goes 30 seconds into the past to appear in his lab. It seems that 30 seconds before his experiment was to begin he saw himself appear in the lab. There would now be two travelers and two time machines. It doesn't appear that it ends that simply as the "second" time traveler says that he saw a duplicate self appear in the lab thirty seconds before he started the trip. It would appear that its a time loop and an infinite number of duplicates see a duplicate self appear in the lab thirty seconds prior to the start of the trip. ))

Yes, that's possible.

((Your time machine weighs 500 lbs and an average man weighs about 180 lbs. So lets say that that the mass is about 700 lbs per traveler. What is the mass of the duplicates and where did the mass come from?))

The other mass comes from other worldlines. I like to think of it as standing in a room with mirrors on the walls and the apparent "me" in the room next to mine steps into the room from his.

((What is the result of the duplicates arriving ~simultaneously at the ~same place and time?))

Psychological confusion and a few fist fights.

((How long will it take for the loop to decay? Will it decay? Is it a loop?))

The chances of hitting the precise worldline where all the other duplicates are arriving is almost zero. It's possible but increasingly less probable with each arriving duplicate. The divergence decays and the worldline is "less available" for new "yous" to arrive on.

((What happens if the experimenter, upon seeing his duplicate, decides not to continue the experiment?))

He can always leave the room on his own worldline or put a desk full of books in the position where the time machine is arriving every 30 seconds. That will probably trip the VGL system and stop the time machines from arriving.

RANDY: ((Do you remember any poetry or verse from after 2001 in your past?))

A Soldier's Winter

The day before it wasn't snowing. The trees are strangers, leering, disapproving in the ash of winter

..my world, my life, my wandering path. I pray God's eyes may once again gaze upon me and remind me that I am still His child.

I only (think) I remember the first line but the last one I remember. It has quite a few more lines that I don't remember. It is rumored this was written first as a letter by a soldier. After he died it was added to and edited by others. In my opinion, it has become a symbol for the collective guilt my parents' generation feels for what became of the world.

((Is there an active market on new books in your time, or has that infranstructure not rebuilt it self? Are most the books available old or new? ))

Yes but there are no large commercial printing and distribution companies. Books and other forms of hard media are distributed on the web and printed or put on other media from local hubs. Napster + mailboxes etc.

((Out of curiosity, as a rough judge of character, have you read the works of J.R.R. Tolkien? And did you enjoy them.))

My father read the Hobbit to me as a child. I was always afraid of the dark riders but perhaps I admired them too.

Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-21-2001 10:44 PM

Unhappy

In a post from you Pamela, one before the one I posted where you had from the other forum. I suppose I took it as if it was one of TT_0 posts. Sorry :-(.

Here's a sample: "……In 1983 I enlisted in the united states Army .it was shortly after my enlistment and before completing basic training that I was approached by those I now refer to simply as MY FRIENDS. This group does not contain aliens nor interdimensional beings, they are human…."

Well I'm humble enough to say when I am wrong, and I apologize for continuing to ask you this question John, and Pamela.

But, much still remains to be seen of your truthfulness. Yet you have tons of supporters who you managed to woo into believing you without any physical proof. That in it self, how you would allow that, speaks suspect.

Not to mention that you have a secret agenda, and expecting us to think you're being honest.

Right…

-Javier C.

Posted by Lola Montez on 02-22-2001 12:13 AM

John, Thank you for getting to some of my questions. Here are a couple more.

You say you were in the militia fighting the US Army. I would think that civilians would have a snowballs chance in hell of successfully fighting the military. What does this look like? Is it a stalemate with the resistance/militia hiding out until the cities are wiped out allowing them to surface?

You site the approximate number of cities and military bases intact before the nuclear attack. Are they ALL hit? Three days walk from where? The nearest city? Again, though, what population makes a city a city and not a town?

Does any one or any group stay neutral during all of these years of fighting? Does anyone just lead a reasonably normal life during the civil war? You say the civil war lasts from 2004 to 2008 and then the short big one in 2015. What do the years from 2008 to 2015 look like? How long does WWIII last.

Where is the safest place in the US to be. Come on be a sport. We all seem worth saving, don't we? Besides it would be interesting to see if any of us took you seriously enough to end up there. I don't think I believe in coincidence. Maybe the reason we are all on this board now is to find this out.

You mention the nature of Canadians but I don't think you mentioned the impact of all of this on that country. Would you?

Also, regarding your view on the afterlife. I also think that it is a mystery to unravel. That it is information, awareness, state of mind and experience that leads to enlightenment and the experience of God. Deeds and Dogma just don't do it. As our awareness broadens doing the right thing is what comes naturally (more often, anyway!)If it is based on someone else's idea of right it is a shallow and sporatic endeavor. Religion must be experiential or it has no staying power (and probably not enough compassion or tolerance).

Oh yeah, one more thing that is rather haunting is your allusion to the position of women as being controversial and conservative in 2036. Yikes! What is that supposed to mean?

Lola

Posted by Pamela Moore on 02-22-2001 03:20 AM

Javier, Thank you for your honesty. I have went back and looked up that post you mentioned. Yes, that post was where we were discussing wether the waverider had any validity or not. and right after that was when someone else posted that he had been on art bell for awhile and that Art had proved him to be a fake. which was posted on the TTI forum on January 1, 2001. I had first seen the story on a paranormal site. yep… and you did post right after that I see. actually that might have been where john discovered Art's site as well. yep…it looks like john registered in January. Its ok to question, we are all just trying to find out the truth about things. But we have to get the facts straight.

sincerely, pamela

p.s. I am not mad at you.

Posted by Rick Donaldson on 02-22-2001 06:52 AM

Ernie -- The only comment I have heard so far was -- "Interesting… I need to look at the original though, to make any sort of determination. Where did you get this?"

Hahaha. I told them I have "my sources". They are content with that.

To Javier -- You made mention of something about folks taking someone into their lives, etc etc. While I understand that point of view -- the "trust no one, be paranoid" very well -- since I am like that myself, I have to say that you and a few others that have made comments here detract from the discussion in one aspect. Let me explain before you misunderstand me.

In our society today, we have nothing but untrusting, cynical people out there. For good reason, most of them have had bad experiences. The internet is not to be trusted in general and people in general shouldn't be trusted.

Now, what I am trying to say here (not very well) is this is akin to some of the antigun people I meet. When I talk about the Second Amendment to them, they get all upset and scream and yell how no one should have guns and if there were no guns there would be no crime or war. I calmly point out that there were wars before there were guns, and they go on about how that was a "less civilized society"…

Then there are the "skeptics" about UFOs, and any kind of odd, out of the ordinary occurrences (for instance, Big Foot, alien abductions, SETI etc). Let's say for instance someone is a "skeptic" -- that doesn't mean they should close their minds completely to anything new, in fact, doesn't mean they should close their eyes to the apparently impossible.

In "my world" everything is possible. Just because we have a set of mathematics to describe something here and now, does NOT mean there isn't a loop hole in those calculations.

What I'm getting at is very simple. I don't believe John is a time traveler right now. I have enough of a physics background to understand his information though and (assuming he IS real) eventually he will hit on something that I personally can use to verify for myself the truth.

I think Ernie said nothing would be conclusive proof. Then again, I don't require conclusive proof to keep "alive the idea that time travel is possible".

What I'm trying to say is that you've set yourself up to be John's nemises for some reason. If it is to protect the rest of us, that isn't necessary. We're all adult, thinking (free thinking) individuals who have the right to whatever beliefs we wish in this day and age, regardless of our gender, religious believes, race or even in my humble opinion, nationality.

In other words… a skeptic is a good thing to be. Each of us should have our own, interal skeptism to use to mediate our belief systems. But, when someone comes in loud and strong trying to force everyone to his or her point of view, there is a serious problem.

Now, I'm not asking that you (or anyone) NOT pursue their ideas, and idealism, nor am I even asking you not to try to convince people. I'm simply pointing out that we all have a right to our beliefs -- without ridicule from anyone else.

Don't get me wrong here, I am not taking any one's "side" as I don't believe there are sides to take here.

Someone else (I forget who it was) mentioned something about nuclear weapons being tossed from corner to corner of the earth and the impossibility of that. Think again.

There is more of a nuclear threat, right now, today in 2001 than there was in 1983. During the Cold War, we never would have launched a nuke, nor would have the Soviet Union at each other.

However, there is a greater threat today because many smaller, and somewhat unstable countries are getting nuclear capability -- and have access to other countries who would sell nukes without any qualms.

Yes, biological threats are bigger, but do not rule out nukes, ever.

Even the CIA special report that came our recently mentioned what I just said.

I guess the only thing we need in this discussion are some more pictures of manuals, and/or a video tape of John's "depature" (if that is what you would call it??) from our time line.

Proof, sometimes like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

Rick

Posted by Javier Cortez on 02-22-2001 07:57 AM

Rick, That was very inspirational. (How ever you spell it =)

However, please understand that my intention is to just keep it real. And believe it or not, someone here has to.

People will march to the sound of his beating drum if someone doesn't speak up and offer an other side. In other words, lots of people here are one sided.

Some aren't free willed thinking individuals as you described… Some need people like John here to give them purpose. A person whom they can look for answers, not someone to lead them. A short-cut more like it.

And Time Travel is that short-cut.

You never been face to face with a Time Traveler have you? First hand experiences are always the hardest to have others understand.

John is not what he appears to be. Yes he is well spoken, and has a pleasant manner in how he presents him self. But looks are deceiving when you have a secret agenda. Take that into your explanation…

Well I have to go now. Ask me more questions if you want. I will answer them all to the best of my knowledge.

Thank you, Javier C.

[sean92008]

Bump. 

For no other reason but to look into the past.