Author Topic: D. B. Cooper  (Read 221 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Uncle Duke

  • KDWN
  • ***
  • Posts: 169
D. B. Cooper
« on: November 24, 2021, 01:19:52 PM »
Fifty years ago today, a man identifying himself as Dan Cooper bought a plane ticket from Portland (OR) to Seattle. He hijacked the airplane, claiming he had a bomb in his briefcase, and demanded $200000 cash and four parachutes. He parachuted from the plane in that area, taking the money and bomb with him. He has never been seen again, making his the only unsolved skyjacking in US history.

Rikki Gins

  • Ellevated
  • ******
  • Posts: 9311
  • Alias Barton Keyes
Re: D. B. Cooper
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2021, 01:32:56 PM »
Fifty years ago today, a man identifying himself as Dan Cooper bought a plane ticket from Portland (OR) to Seattle. He hijacked the airplane, claiming he had a bomb in his briefcase, and demanded $200000 cash and four parachutes. He parachuted from the plane in that area, taking the money and bomb with him. He has never been seen again, making his the only unsolved skyjacking in US history.

I remember following the story as it happened.  I was in an outbuilding that Dad used for making wine.  Had my small transistor radio and listened to the whole thing from beginning to end.  It seemed 'live' at the time but thinking about it, the technology might not have been advanced enough for the fast breaking news that we have now.  Oddly, I didn't go into the house to watch television coverage.  Perhaps it was because we only had three channels at that time.   

JUAN

  • Ellightened
  • ******
  • Posts: 4634
  • From off the Atlantic Coast, Surficial
Re: D. B. Cooper
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2021, 01:41:02 PM »
Will sNoory do a DB Cooper show tonight?  Of course not.
Merry Christmas.

Uncle Duke

  • KDWN
  • ***
  • Posts: 169
Re: D. B. Cooper
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2021, 01:43:08 PM »
Will sNoory do a DB Cooper show tonight?  Of course not.

Ian Punnett did a few Cooper shows years back.  Knowing his interest in the case, I'm surprised he didn't do a 50th anniversary show.

HamsterMuscle

  • KNYE
  • ****
  • Posts: 440
    • The George Senda Music Video
Re: D. B. Cooper
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2021, 01:44:37 PM »
Expert opinion seems to hold that he did not survive the jump.  I've always questioned that.  t seems like the only way that there could be no trace of him would be that he survived the jump and took all traces with him.  But who knows.

Rikki Gins

  • Ellevated
  • ******
  • Posts: 9311
  • Alias Barton Keyes
Re: D. B. Cooper
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2021, 01:53:45 PM »
Expert opinion seems to hold that he did not survive the jump.  I've always questioned that.  t seems like the only way that there could be no trace of him would be that he survived the jump and took all traces with him.  But who knows.

Right.  It seems like somebody would have come across the parachute or his body or something.  Some of the money was found in a mud flat area but perhaps some of the bills leaked out of the container, bag or whatever on the way down?

JUAN

  • Ellightened
  • ******
  • Posts: 4634
  • From off the Atlantic Coast, Surficial
Re: D. B. Cooper
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2021, 01:56:37 PM »
Only $200k.  Shows the effects of inflation.
Merry Christmas.

HamsterMuscle

  • KNYE
  • ****
  • Posts: 440
    • The George Senda Music Video
Re: D. B. Cooper
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2021, 02:10:28 PM »
Right.  It seems like somebody would have come across the parachute or his body or something.  Some of the money was found in a mud flat area but perhaps some of the bills leaked out of the container, bag or whatever on the way down?

Yeah, that money thing is really whack.  It doesn't make any sense.  Read about it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D._B._Cooper#Recovered_ransom_money

Uncle Duke

  • KDWN
  • ***
  • Posts: 169
Re: D. B. Cooper
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2021, 02:20:33 PM »
Expert opinion seems to hold that he did not survive the jump.  I've always questioned that.  t seems like the only way that there could be no trace of him would be that he survived the jump and took all traces with him.  But who knows.

Expert opinion is actually the opposite, and backed up by the fact a number of copycat hijackers parachuted from airliners and survived.  The most famous of these was Richard McCoy only months after Cooper's jump. A jump from 10000 ft from an aircraft doing less than 150 mph is quite benign, relatively low dynamic pressure and very survivable with the C-9 canopy chute he used.  Whether was able to hold on to the money as he jumped is another question. 

ShayP

  • Ellevated
  • ******
  • Posts: 6218
  • Your honor, I just want to get a hot dog!
Re: D. B. Cooper
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2021, 02:29:08 PM »
Right.  It seems like somebody would have come across the parachute or his body or something.  Some of the money was found in a mud flat area but perhaps some of the bills leaked out of the container, bag or whatever on the way down?

Wasn't a parachute found, covered in overgrowth, along with some of the money near a creek?  I recall watching something a few years ago on some cable channel (History channel?) where some kid found it.

HamsterMuscle

  • KNYE
  • ****
  • Posts: 440
    • The George Senda Music Video
Re: D. B. Cooper
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2021, 02:44:52 PM »
Expert opinion is actually the opposite, and backed up by the fact a number of copycat hijackers parachuted from airliners and survived.  The most famous of these was Richard McCoy only months after Cooper's jump. A jump from 10000 ft from an aircraft doing less than 150 mph is quite benign, relatively low dynamic pressure and very survivable with the C-9 canopy chute he used.  Whether was able to hold on to the money as he jumped is another question.

I guess that it depends -- as it often does -- upon which experts that you listen to.  Anyway, here's the FBI's take, according to Wikipedia:

The author of an analysis of World War II aircrew bailouts concluded that the probability of Cooper's survival may have been higher than suggested by popular opinion. Cooper, he claimed, jumped in conditions that thousands of RAF crewmen survived during WWII.[124]

The FBI was more skeptical, concluding that Cooper lacked crucial skydiving skills and experience. "We originally thought Cooper was an experienced jumper, perhaps even a paratrooper", said Special Agent Larry Carr, leader of the investigative team from 2006 until its dissolution in 2016. "We concluded after a few years this was simply not true. No experienced parachutist would have jumped in the pitch-black night, in the rain, with a 172 mph [77 m/s] wind in his face wearing loafers and a trench coat. It was simply too risky. He also missed that his reserve parachute was only for training and had been sewn shut, something a skilled skydiver would have checked."[102] He also failed to bring or request a helmet,[125] chose to jump with the older and technically inferior of the two primary parachutes supplied to him,[59] and jumped into a probable 15 °F (−9 °C) wind at 10,000 feet (3,000 m) in November over Washington state without proper protection against the extreme wind chill.[126][123]

The FBI speculated from the beginning that Cooper did not survive his jump.[102] "Diving into the wilderness without a plan, without the right equipment, in such terrible conditions, he probably never even got his chute open", said Carr.[114] Even if he did land safely, agents contended that survival in the mountainous terrain at the onset of winter would have been all but impossible without an accomplice at a predetermined landing point. This would have required a precisely timed jump—necessitating, in turn, cooperation from the flight crew. There is no evidence that Cooper requested or received any such help from the crew, nor that he had any clear idea where he was when he jumped into the stormy, overcast darkness.[115]

Uncle Duke

  • KDWN
  • ***
  • Posts: 169
Re: D. B. Cooper
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2021, 02:58:31 PM »
I guess that it depends -- as it often does -- upon which experts that you listen to.  Anyway, here's the FBI's take, according to Wikipedia:

The author of an analysis of World War II aircrew bailouts concluded that the probability of Cooper's survival may have been higher than suggested by popular opinion. Cooper, he claimed, jumped in conditions that thousands of RAF crewmen survived during WWII.[124]

The FBI was more skeptical, concluding that Cooper lacked crucial skydiving skills and experience. "We originally thought Cooper was an experienced jumper, perhaps even a paratrooper", said Special Agent Larry Carr, leader of the investigative team from 2006 until its dissolution in 2016. "We concluded after a few years this was simply not true. No experienced parachutist would have jumped in the pitch-black night, in the rain, with a 172 mph [77 m/s] wind in his face wearing loafers and a trench coat. It was simply too risky. He also missed that his reserve parachute was only for training and had been sewn shut, something a skilled skydiver would have checked."[102] He also failed to bring or request a helmet,[125] chose to jump with the older and technically inferior of the two primary parachutes supplied to him,[59] and jumped into a probable 15 °F (−9 °C) wind at 10,000 feet (3,000 m) in November over Washington state without proper protection against the extreme wind chill.[126][123]

The FBI speculated from the beginning that Cooper did not survive his jump.[102] "Diving into the wilderness without a plan, without the right equipment, in such terrible conditions, he probably never even got his chute open", said Carr.[114] Even if he did land safely, agents contended that survival in the mountainous terrain at the onset of winter would have been all but impossible without an accomplice at a predetermined landing point. This would have required a precisely timed jump—necessitating, in turn, cooperation from the flight crew. There is no evidence that Cooper requested or received any such help from the crew, nor that he had any clear idea where he was when he jumped into the stormy, overcast darkness.[115]


And the FBI talked to exactly zero parachute/skydiving experts in their investigation.  They didn't exactly cover themselves in glory on this case. Read Bruce Smith's book, "DB Cooper and the FBI."

Cooper was clearly well versed in both aviation and parachuting.  He dictated airspeed and altitude, as well as flap settings, for his jump.  He also picked out the C9 canopy chute of the three operational chutes provided.   The stew in the back of the plane with him said he donned the harness and attached the chute in no time flat, he'd obviously done it many times before.  He also knew where he was as he identified a couple landmarks to that stew before ordering the a/c to slow down and drop the flaps.

JUAN

  • Ellightened
  • ******
  • Posts: 4634
  • From off the Atlantic Coast, Surficial
Re: D. B. Cooper
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2021, 03:12:30 PM »
Also, the plane boarded and exited through a descending stairway that extended to the rear of the plane.  I would think this would be similar to jumping from the rear of a modern paratroop plane as opposed to a side door C-47.  The wind, thus, would not have been in Cooper’s face in any way I can see.
Merry Christmas.

Uncle Duke

  • KDWN
  • ***
  • Posts: 169
Re: D. B. Cooper
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2021, 03:24:29 PM »
Also, the plane boarded and exited through a descending stairway that extended to the rear of the plane.  I would think this would be similar to jumping from the rear of a modern paratroop plane as opposed to a side door C-47.  The wind, thus, would not have been in Cooper’s face in any way I can see.

Plus US Special Forces jumped from CIA/Southern Air Transport 727s out of Laos early in the Vietnam War.

HamsterMuscle

  • KNYE
  • ****
  • Posts: 440
    • The George Senda Music Video
Re: D. B. Cooper
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2021, 03:34:42 PM »
Also, the plane boarded and exited through a descending stairway that extended to the rear of the plane.  I would think this would be similar to jumping from the rear of a modern paratroop plane as opposed to a side door C-47.  The wind, thus, would not have been in Cooper’s face in any way I can see.

Let me repeat that my personal opinion is that he survived.  Those who disagree seem to focus on the conditions at the time.  -9C with no winter clothing isn't an easy thing to do.  As far the wind is concerned, he initially was traveling at the same speed as the plane when he jumped, thereafter slowing in his forward motion, but accelerating in freefall.  I don't know how they came up with 77 m/s as a wind speed, but after roughly 8 seconds his vertical speed would have reached that point.