Aviation Thread

[sean92008]

Allahualbar?

[Walks_At_Night]

I'm just gonna be patient and wait for the preliminary report to be released.

Some dude dug out the 787 checklist.  Step 1 is to manipulate the fuel control switches in a duel engine failure.

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[Uncle Duke]

Some dude dug out the 787 checklist.  Step 1 is to manipulate the fuel control switches in a duel engine failure.

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Whether or not they cycled the fuel control switches will be confirmed from the flight data recorders.  If cycled, then would it be cause or effect of the a/c losing power on take-off?  Yes, this assumes the FDRs survived.

There's always a "yeah, but....." angle to these things.  In the commercial aviation world, it's all about crisis management....and ultimately money.  Lots of finger pointing, it's even dodgier in lesser developed nations.  You see some screwy temporary "alliances" formed in symbiotic relationships. 

If you ever get a chance (God forbid) to attend an NTSB public hearing, do so.  Once it gets rolling, they can degenerate into a Marx Brothers-inspired, legal(esque) free for all. Lot at stack, and all the principals are there to affix blame on someone else.  That's where you'll see the temporary alliances I mentioned. 

[sean92008]

Some dude dug out the 787 checklist.  Step 1 is to manipulate the fuel control switches in a duel engine failure.

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How long did they have between the time they knew they had a problem and PONR (right, that's a thing, "point of no return")? I've seen video of people pulling the checklist, pretty efficient, but still takes time. Plus, the pilots had to be smart enough, if they wanted to live, to reference it quickly.

[Walks_At_Night]

Allahualbar?

More likely Prepare to meet Kali

Report has been released:
https://aaib.gov.in/
https://aaib.gov.in/What's%20New%20Assets/Preliminary%20Report%20VT-ANB.pdf

Why the Plane Crashed
The preliminary investigation, aided by data from the Enhanced Airborne Flight Recorder (EAFR), points to a dual engine flameout immediately after liftoff as the primary cause of the crash.

According to the EAFR data, the critical sequence of events was as follows:

The aircraft lifted off normally at 08:08:39 UTC.

Three seconds after liftoff, at 08:08:42 UTC, the fuel cutoff switches for both Engine 1 and Engine 2 moved from the "RUN" to the "CUTOFF" position.

This action cut the fuel supply to both engines, causing them to begin shutting down. The aircraft's Ram Air Turbine (RAT) deployed automatically to provide emergency hydraulic power as the engines spooled down.

The Cockpit Voice Recorder captured one pilot asking the other why he had cut the fuel, with the other pilot denying that he had done so.

Although the flight crew attempted to restore power by moving the fuel cutoff switches back to "RUN" about 10 to 14 seconds after the shutdown, it was too late. While both engines showed signs of relighting, they could not recover in time to prevent the aircraft from losing altitude and crashing.

So somehow, someway, inadvertently done or there was a nutter involved.

[Uncle Duke]

More likely Prepare to meet Kali

Report has been released:
https://aaib.gov.in/
https://aaib.gov.in/What's%20New%20Assets/Preliminary%20Report%20VT-ANB.pdf


So somehow, someway, inadvertently done or there was a nutter involved.

Ok, the FDR showed the fuel control switches were cycled, and the CVR showed the pilots were aware of the switch having been moved.  As I expected, but we still don't know who/how/why?  According to the article, one pilot denied having activated the switches when asked by the other pilot.

I have my doubts it was done intentionally, unless there is evidence from the CVR that proves otherwise.  Why would a guy who is going to snuff it by flying a plane load of people into the ground deny doing so while in the act?  He's afraid he's going to get into trouble?  Doesn't make sense to me. 

[Walks_At_Night]

Ok, the FDR showed the fuel control switches were cycled, and the CVR showed the pilots were aware of the switch having been moved.  As I expected, but we still don't know who/how/why?  According to the article, one pilot denied having activated the switches when asked by the other pilot.

I have my doubts it was done intentionally, unless there is evidence from the CVR that proves otherwise.  Why would a guy who is going to snuff it by flying a plane load of people into the ground deny doing so while in the act?  He's afraid he's going to get into trouble?  Doesn't make sense to me.

We don't know if it was intentional or not.  Seems to me the most likely explanation though.  There was some sort of elderly TSB on those switches but it was not even a mandatory issue to be inspected.
Not sure you can apply logic to some nutter's thinking.  I'd guess that the dude that flipped the switches was the one that asked why they were shut off.  The wait until the other guy goes to the head to drop trou and then crash the plane has been done to death.  This guy wanted to be different.  I'm sure it freaked the other guy out and the nutter got his jollies.


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[Walks_At_Night]

Brownie has entered the chat.

[Uncle Duke]

We don't know if it was intentional or not.  Seems to me the most likely explanation though.  There was some sort of elderly TSB on those switches but it was not even a mandatory issue to be inspected.
Not sure you can apply logic to some nutter's thinking.  I'd guess that the dude that flipped the switches was the one that asked why they were shut off.  The wait until the other guy goes to the head to drop trou and then crash the plane has been done to death.  This guy wanted to be different.  I'm sure it freaked the other guy out and the nutter got his jollies.


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Short of evidence to prove what actually happened, your theory is as good as any.  Investigators are digging into the lives of both pilots looking for something that might have prompted one of them to crash the aircraft.  Relationship issues? Money problems?  Ultimate "fuck you" to Air India? Mental illness? 

Will be interesting to see if they find anything.  We never found out why that USAF pilot absconded with an A-10 he shortly thereafter flew into a mountain.  Do you remember that, Walks?

[Walks_At_Night]

Short of evidence to prove what actually happened, your theory is as good as any.  Investigators are digging into the lives of both pilots looking for something that might have prompted one of them to crash the aircraft.  Relationship issues? Money problems?  Ultimate "fuck you" to Air India? Mental illness? 

Will be interesting to see if they find anything.  We never found out why that USAF pilot absconded with an A-10 he shortly thereafter flew into a mountain.  Do you remember that, Walks?

Yeah.  Also remember the German guy that flew into the Alps. And the Indonesian guy that crashed his 737 and the Egyptian dude that did the same with his 767.  Its certainly not unheard of.

[Uncle Duke]

Yeah.  Also remember the German guy that flew into the Alps. And the Indonesian guy that crashed his 737 and the Egyptian dude that did the same with his 767.  Its certainly not unheard of.

Lot of political intrigue in that part of the world, the conspiracy theories should be interesting.

[Up All Night]

If the captain had turned off the switches, knowing that there was CVR, I would take a second to say "the captain has sabotaged this flight."

https://www.france24.com/en/asia-pacific/20250712-reports-says-fuel-to-air-india-jet-engines-cut-off-before-crash

[Up All Night]

[Walks_At_Night]

Gryder had to pulled out his old uniform out of mothballs for this Air India business.

[sean92008]

Sooo, a man who had to take leave because of psychological problems was allowed to be a pilot... OK. Then his mother dies... Poor baby murderer.